Nursery form teacher handed us a bag of poo

[ButterscotchWhip]

Right. I'll try to keep it short, but I don't think it will be.

DD has just turned 3. A couple of weeks ago she started in the nursery class of what I've now realised is quite a formal and strict girls' independent school. It is highly regarded locally, and me and DH loved it when we looked round, but I now fear I've done myself and DD up like a kipper sending her here.

She's fully potty trained but (my fault) I don't think I got her onto actual toilet training quickly enough. September has rolled around and she's just not 100% there on toilet training. I tell the staff this and they seem ok with it at first. I offer to send in her carry potty (which she loves and uses well) - they say no. The class is large, and the way they do toilet trips is to take a group to the loos and then the teacher stands nearby. It's just not enough support for DD, and she's had a lot of accidents there (for which we receive intense FIRST AID NOTIFICATION emails as they have to change her). Anyway, she's now never telling them when she needs to go, and she is running away from the loo at home saying she doesn't like the toilet (and started crying about it yesterday too).

We get an email from her form teacher this week saying she must now be in nappies during school time. DH emails back and says we certainly don't support this idea, she's on the right path but in a brand new environment, nappies will confuse her and send her learning backwards etc. He suggests that if this issue is one of a lack of resource / low levels of staffing, then that's a worry. He's not rude, just quite straight up.

The next morning at 9am, I receive a call from school saying DH must be collected and taken home for a bath as she's soiled herself AND they will not allow her back in school unless she's in pull-ups. I am not free to get her, neither is DH, but our son's carer/nanny is and happily collects her. She finds DD just needs a good wipe, not really a bath. Upon arriving at reception to receive DD, our nanny is given a binliner. It transpires this contains DD's soiled knickers, THE ENTIRE TURD, and all the wipes they have already used on DD's guilty bum (barf).

I haven't said anything in response to any staff yet as we already have a catch-up meeting, face to face, with the form teacher tomorrow. But presuming that they have a rubbish bin in school, I think the sh*t-bag might have been a thinly veiled message of hostility, no?

I am boggling from all this. Would genuinely love to hear what other MNers would do now!

Ours were at a great nursery, part of an independent school, at 3.
No issues whatsoever with the occasional accident. They kept spare underwear and joggers for the occasion.

We've done two different private schools with nursery - this isn't true. They both did an amazing job potty training my 2 x 2yr old with us.

Hi all,

Thank you to everyone who replied. Your responses were really useful. I do realise now that I was being a bit of an idiot assuming that a preschool setting would be akin to a day nursery in terms of 'hands-on' time, and attitude, from staff.
I have put DD on the waiting list for re-entry to her old nursery (which also is attached to a private school, and isn't perfect but is a lot more chilled out).

As it happens, I spoke to a mum who has kids at DD's new setting this morning. One of her children is struggling with something totally separate and she said the school have been totally great - really kind, really collaborative, supportive etc. That surprised me, but obviously in a good way.

This afternoon DH and I met with DD's form tutor. The first thing she said was that DD has been saying she needs the toilet today, even in pull-ups which she's now been in for 2 days. They are also giving her props (toys) for the toilet which are working well; they are treating her as if she hasn't got nappies on at all (ie taking her to the toilet as usual). I am of course still a bit concerned about the mixed messaging but I do see that she can't just be in pants in school if she's not actually toilet trained. I am going to get some training pants too, so hopefully she registers being wet / dirty in a way she wouldn't in nappies. We have put a date in to meet again in a fortnight to assess progress.

So, the binbag. DH said 'We have been quite sad about receiving that bag' and the teacher was completely blank and baffled. We explained about the poo-bag and its unsavoury contents and she genuinely reacted with complete horror. She said: 'That was meant for the bin' and put her head in her hands. I really don't think she was faking it, either. She said she was extremely sorry and was totally mortified. They do have a biowaste disposal, and that's where her nappies are going now - and yes, they are changing her, and they've started recording those digitally so I can see what the nappy sitch is during the day.

DH and I said that they need to include toilet training policy in the literature for prospective or new parents from now on and she made a note.

She has also made DD two copies of a really nice star chart.

So, that's where I am. Do I think I made a mis-step in my choice of nursery/school? Probably. But they've redeemed themselves pretty well for now. If toilet training in training pants doesn't work (and I know it might not) then I'll do what some of you have suggested and take her out for a few weeks (perhaps tagging a week onto the end of the half term). Then we can get toilet training done properly and send her in with a fully formed skill.

Pleased to hear it was a positive meeting and that they have a nappy bin 😃

Mine are at a private nursery but they are treated very very kindly. BS that it’s a private school thing, it’s that particular school

I agree with this. I would say they are at best negligent and at worse mentally bullying your child. The school may be highly regarded in the area for its academic success (although the measurement of this at you child’s age is questionable) but clearly they do not care about nurturing children. Agreed…they can get f***

None of this is normal.

Sorry you went through this OP. Long time ago now, but at my children's private school nursery (where kids' started at the age of 3), they did make it clear they were expected to be fully and reliably toilet trained - with the reassurance that accidents do sometimes happen and they would help the kids into fresh clothes if that were the case.

They'd NEVER have done the above with the bag, that's awful... but I can understand why they would want children to be at the toilet trained stage as it's pretty time consuming for teachers to deal with...

Omg that’s terrible
kids have accidents all the time
a few baby wipes would of sorted it and nursery’s always have spare knickers and bits for such young kiddies😢

Worked in nurseries and schools for many years. Flushing poo down the toilet is the usual practice. Never ever heard of it being given back to parents, only in form of soiled underwear!

Move her to a normal nursery! Nursery staff there will accompany them and help them to wipe etc.
But also make sure you prioritise teaching her to wipe etc at home

My children had to be out of nappies by the time they started playgroup at 2 and a half. They rarely had accidents. Toilet training or lack of it is a massive problem in our schools at present and takes up a lot of teachers’ time. So I understand where the nursery is coming from.
Having said that though they do seem to be being a little harsh with your little one and it is not helping her. I’d be inclined to move her to a more tolerant place

Run away from here quickly. She’s 3. Of course she needs support with going to the toilet. I don’t expect you are the only one here and they are total wack jobs if they are sticking to this. Can you move her? This seems like a really unhealthy environment to have kids in. It’s the staff mentality and the ethos behind how they are teaching children that is important. Flashy things like big buildings and extra facilities are nice but totally useless when you can’t get the basics right. I’m so sorry for your little girl. Sounds like a very out of date system in place here. To put this in context primary school children aged 5 struggle with this system. If you are staying put ask them how they plan to support your daughter with learning the basic skill of using a toilet? And see how they respond. If they can’t get the basics right then move your kid elsewhere.

Pants don't always contain the poo. So you have a hygiene problem if the child soils themselves, doesn't say anything, and sits on a chair or wanders round with bits if poo drooping out.

I think the main issue is that rather than an occasional accident, which of course would be both fine and to be expected, OP's daughter is soiling herself on a daily basis.

Ok this school needs named and shamed!!! Tbh this is very very concerning. I work in child mental health and I'm concerned by this behaviour. If anyone reported this to me I'd be safeguarding

Not that i agree with whats happened but teachers cant go to the toilet. You do realise they cant leave the class?!

Re your last post I think that you give it the fortnight before you meet again and see how it goes and re-assess then. It does sound like a constructive meeting.l and well done to your husband telling them to put the toilet trained prerequisite into the brochure as it clearly should have been front and centre in discussions (I’ve toured a few pre schools and they have talked about this from the start)

Get her out of there asap - who knows what psychological/ emotional damage they’ve done to her already.

Pull ups stop the poo accident from falling onto the floor of the room where children are playing.
I have heard that this has happened to a friend who works in a nursery and another child stuck a piece of Lego into it before a staff member saw it.
Ratio of 1 to 8 doesn't really allow for multiple soiled accidents per day and it is better for a child's self esteem.

That sounds much more positive. Agree about the toilet training but in practice setting out what the expectations are on both sides if there's a deterioration is sensible. If it doesn't work for you, you can then decide whether 3 is simply too young to be in a more school than nursery environment.

My DD was summer born and barely three starting at a private school nursery. She hadn't been to any nursery prior to then so leaving wasn't really an option. The school took the opposite approach and wouldn't allow pull ups at all. They saw them as a step back and would rather deal with the consequences which was brave. There was one spectacular incident which judging by the clothes I got back must have taken the poor TA some time to clean her up.

She was fully toilet trained going in but it did go completely pear shaped in the first few weeks and occasional incidents after that. Just so much going on at school and totally distracted. They were also not hands on with wiping or helping to so that also had to be managed with daily baths etc. which was normal for her but absolutely necessary for about 2/3 yrs. I don't think they are particularly reliable wipers until 5/6 and even then if something exciting is going on that they are rushing to get back to, they have their moments.

Favourite pants [Frozen Elsa pants] at the time helped but really its just a phase and it will work itself out. Just lucky you have other childcare around who can pick up in an emergency but there's no reason why the school can't accommodate a swift change of clothes for a wee incident. Raging diarrhoea or similar would be grounds to go straight home in case of cross infection anyway.

This. You get the s$&t back because they don’t have the biohazard waste disposal facilities. Nurseries are highly regulated and this, if it’s attached to a prep school, is more like a school than a nursery.
But on another note, this attitude is not helpful for your DD, and if the school is not willing to work with you and her, then sadly, you will need to move her. But before you resort to this nuclear option, please sit down with the head and her teachers, and try to work out in the most constructive way how they can help de-traumatize your little girl and make her school experience enjoyable. Perhaps you could try to move her for half days for the rest of this term? In any case, good luck to both of you.

My little girl turns 3 next month and in no way is she ready for Pre-School. She’s refusing to even sit on a potty whereas her brother was potty trained and even dry through the night at her age. They say girls are ‘quicker’ but every child is different. I think trying to get her back into Nursery will be the best thing for her. Don’t let these people knock her confidence, it wasn’t long ago she was a baby.

Well they aren’t supporting her needs. I’d be looking elsewhere fast. Normal preschools/nurseries would be happy with the potty idea and provide their own. They could cause big issues for her with toileting if this carries on.

The only thing I can think off is if your DD has heavily soiled herself to the point the clothes have to be thrown away I think they have to give you them back as they would be in trouble for throwing clothes away. Please take this not as a criticism. Accidents happen and they should understand that but, if it’s constant they can’t be losing a staff member for 20/30 mins every time if everyone had that nothing would get done. I agree that nappies aren’t the answer though and it needs to be something more constructive and positive, maybe a reward chart involving something she loves?