Nursery form teacher handed us a bag of poo

[ButterscotchWhip]

Right. I'll try to keep it short, but I don't think it will be.

DD has just turned 3. A couple of weeks ago she started in the nursery class of what I've now realised is quite a formal and strict girls' independent school. It is highly regarded locally, and me and DH loved it when we looked round, but I now fear I've done myself and DD up like a kipper sending her here.

She's fully potty trained but (my fault) I don't think I got her onto actual toilet training quickly enough. September has rolled around and she's just not 100% there on toilet training. I tell the staff this and they seem ok with it at first. I offer to send in her carry potty (which she loves and uses well) - they say no. The class is large, and the way they do toilet trips is to take a group to the loos and then the teacher stands nearby. It's just not enough support for DD, and she's had a lot of accidents there (for which we receive intense FIRST AID NOTIFICATION emails as they have to change her). Anyway, she's now never telling them when she needs to go, and she is running away from the loo at home saying she doesn't like the toilet (and started crying about it yesterday too).

We get an email from her form teacher this week saying she must now be in nappies during school time. DH emails back and says we certainly don't support this idea, she's on the right path but in a brand new environment, nappies will confuse her and send her learning backwards etc. He suggests that if this issue is one of a lack of resource / low levels of staffing, then that's a worry. He's not rude, just quite straight up.

The next morning at 9am, I receive a call from school saying DH must be collected and taken home for a bath as she's soiled herself AND they will not allow her back in school unless she's in pull-ups. I am not free to get her, neither is DH, but our son's carer/nanny is and happily collects her. She finds DD just needs a good wipe, not really a bath. Upon arriving at reception to receive DD, our nanny is given a binliner. It transpires this contains DD's soiled knickers, THE ENTIRE TURD, and all the wipes they have already used on DD's guilty bum (barf).

I haven't said anything in response to any staff yet as we already have a catch-up meeting, face to face, with the form teacher tomorrow. But presuming that they have a rubbish bin in school, I think the sh*t-bag might have been a thinly veiled message of hostility, no?

I am boggling from all this. Would genuinely love to hear what other MNers would do now!

I don't think their attitude is good but I also don't understand why you are so adverse to pull ups.

By your own admission, she's not fully toilet trained. And even when they are it's harder at nursery when they are too busy playing.

For that reason we used pull ups there longer than at home.

How regular are the accidents? One a week then it's reasonable. One a session, child not ready.

Regression often occurs and they might do well then have three days of accidents but if it's every time, they can't deal with that level of changes for multiple children and continue to meet the ratios required.

They definitely would agree with you, and I take the point that they shouldn't be having to do this. I think my issue is more that I don't think the turd was a mistake, and the general tone they've taken with us. Also, they didn't let us know that the children had to be fully toilet trained. I do really wish DD was, but she's finding it hard, and I refuse to believe she's the first child to ever have toilet anxiety in a prep school setting.

They're trying to show you that she's not toilet trained. It's not their job to separate the poo from her pants. I'd send her back in wearing pull ups. I'd toilet train her during the Christmas break.

If they didn’t let you know then it’s absolutely on them and they need to make accommodations then. It’s in all our schools pre starting documentation.

Thank you - interesting to hear you did pull-ups at nursery too. I suppose I'm only adverse to them because it felt like potty training was such a long project and I don't want her to be confused. She's been back in pull-ups for the past couple of days, but not at home.

Yea definitely move her to a different nursery. They sound so unsupportive makes me wonder how else they are terrible with the children!

I didn't know it was standard procedure. Thanks for the info - it's made me feel a bit better. We aren't refusing pull-ups now - they said she had to wear them to come back to school at all.

You have a nanny?
And I assume that this is a private school you intend to send your child to for primary too?

I'd keep LO at home for a week. And get her fully toilet trained. Then try again with the nursery.

However if you don't intend for her to attend that school I'd see if you can switch nursery.

It's not standard procedure though? Maybe in the PP's nursery? Certainly not in mine. They sent home pants with marks on them yes but not with the poo actually in them! Infact they thought I was odd for wanting the pants back to wash them rather than chucking everything in the bin!

We were never told ‘fully potty trained’ either but toilets formed part of the tour when we viewed and they were saying how nursery had their own adjacent to the class and that they were the small ones, and the sample class schedule had ‘toilet time’ on it before breaktime. So it seemed very much that it was expected even if it wasn’t said explicitly.

Also, they’re not giving you notice and will take her in pull ups so they obviously are willing to have her even though she’s not fully trained yet, they just won’t do the training part for you which is fair enough really because they probably don’t have the resources at the higher school nursery ratios (1:13 vs. 1:8 in a day nursery).

It’s October HT coming up so presuming she has 1-2 weeks off. If you want to make it work can you bootcamp it then and hopefully return her to school in knickers after the break?

I'm not exactly sure what the point of pull ups would be? If she poos they would still have to clean her up and change her. They can't just leave a child in a dirty pull up. Or is it because a pull up is disposable and they can just throw it away rather than having to bag it up?

This 👆🏻

This is terrible, get her out. As you have a nanny, I would remove her immediately. This is neither normal for a nursery nor okay.

I imagine it’s that you can tear them off and avoid having to drag them down the DC’s leg and potentially getting poo on them in the process. And also then yes straight in the bin and no stinking bag hanging on their peg whiffing out the whole place until pick up.

Most kids start school at 3 in Wales and I've seen kids sent home from state schools with shit on them as the teachers /TAs refuse to help them clean themselves (I've seen a TA stand and do this, I ended up helping the child when the TA walked off rather than leave him to go home covered in shit), or with a full shit in their pants (which they are still wearing).

I feel really strongly that any school. nursery etc that refuses to do personal care should not be working with kids in the early years.

I guess if you decide to move her that you need to give one term's notice or pay that if you leave sooner.
and I guess further that means it will be Spring term you would need to pay for as Winter term has started and it has already been paid for.

The fact that they’re not supporting with toilet training and they’d rather stick a pull up on says it all.. I’d be changing nursery.

I have a 3 year old who just started school nursery after being childminded. Plus he’s an August baby so I was quite nervous as we were not 100% potty trained either. Poos were a problem. But the nursery have been amazing. They remind the kids every 30 mins and the toilets are actually in the same space so that really helps. He hasn’t had any accidents as a result but I know if he did it would be a supportive environment. I’d pull her out to be honest. Can you see if any other local school nurseries have spaces?? With my eldest we moved house in October so joined the nursery in October. It was fine.

I think their attitude sucks, frankly.

I can't understand why a school catering for children who are 3 doesn't have the capacity to deal with biowaste. It goes against all well known and widely understood knowledge of child development to expect such young children in a new environment to be fully toilet trained and capable of wiping themselves effectively.

I think your DH was absolutely correct to write the note he sent. I would have written it myself. He is right about the pull ups or nappies too.

And if they can't manage biowaste in underpants, how are they going to manage nappies or pullups? Do they intend to just leave your child sitting in a soiled nappy all day?

I'd reconsider the school. I wouldn't send any child of mine to an environment where children were shamed for accidents - I think you can safely assume given the passive aggressive poo in the bag and your child's current emotional state around toileting that your child was treated badly.

This is truly horrible.

Did you not have a settling session where they asked about the toilet? We had this with our nursery.

I do kind of agree that they probably just put the pants in the bag, turd and all.

This has reminded me that I once had a poo returned with the pants - DS is now 16 . I thought it was odd at the time and would have preferred them to just throw the whole lot away - certainly wouldn’t have expected them to separate it .. imagine some parents would have kicked off about the missing pants . I wouldn’t take it as a message OP .

Awful behaviour. Sorry your poor daughter has had to deal with this.

I bet they would leave her sitting in poo all day.

If they have the capacity to wipe a bottom and then throw away a soiled pull-up, they have the capacity to wipe same bottom and dispose of soiled underpants too.

They are not kicking her out for accidents (which happened 20 years ago) merely saying unless she able to use the children's toilets consistently then she needs to be a pull up. I understand why, they don't have the same ratio as a day nursery and certainly cannot have different kids potties lying around which then will need cleaning. I think they are being fair in their approach

Private nurseries should not be able to impose these ridiculous rules.