How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

Maybe you're right @pintofsnakebite

Different outcomes don't usually come from one big thing. Lots of little decisions and choices add up. We should try to make as many decisions as possible which will improve the UK rather than degrading it, even if it's only a small one.

People seem to think that the UK is just entitled in perpetuity to this marvelous standard of living

I think a lot of people would wonder what you are talking about with the 'marvellous standard of living'. But perhaps you have the privilege not to see the grinding poverty.

DD's comp want a minimum 6 x grades 7-9 including English and Maths for 6th form entry and only have enough places for 1/4 of the existing Y11.

Would you prefer to be a disabled, single mother with no family support in the UK, India or Nigeria?

What kind of vehicle does a middle class family have in the UK vs India? Many in the UK will have a car. A middle class Indian family may celebrate being able to buy a moped, which they'll balance their entire family on (possibly even when taking an ill member of the family to hospital, where they'll pay for most medications themselves).

People who complain about the UK standard of living have clearly not seen grinding poverty - or normal life - in the other 90% of countries.

Would you prefer to be a disabled, single mother with no family support in the UK, India or Nigeria?

Why are the poor in the UK being asked to appreciate actually how good they've got it while the terribly put upon rich aren't being asked to reflect on their privilege?

I mean, an incredibly wealthy family moaning that they might have to pay a bit of extra tax so they might actually skip the country rather than do that - that makes them come across as complete twats tbh. Would you rather be an incredibly wealthy family in the UK who is being asked to pay a bit more tax, or a disabled single mother with no family support in the UK?

@noblegiraffe
I mean, an incredibly wealthy family moaning that they might have to pay a bit of extra tax so they might actually skip the country rather than do that.

How much money does a family have to have before they are ‘incredibly wealthy’, and how much extra tax should they have to pay?

My point was that the financial support which the state gives to that UK disabled, single mother doesn't come from thin air.

It didn't exist in the UK 100 years ago.

It doesn't exist in 90% of countries.

It isn't inevitable that it will continue to exist in the UK in 50 years time. I'd like it to. But it isn't inevitable. We need to do the right things as a country to remain profitable and productive enough that it can.

And none of my comments have been restricted to the poor.

You've made that up.

I specifically mentioned the differences in middle class life as well.

It's the strength of the UK economy which allows all of those things. The state support of the disabled, single mum, NHS treatment for all, and the pleasant lifestyle of the middle class family.

None of them are inevitable. None of them are guaranteed in perpetuity.

So don't destroy it.

The median UK salary is about £35k, I suspect that there are many families earning far more than that who don't consider themselves 'incredibly wealthy' but perhaps should.

My point there is the absolute disgust I felt at someone wheeling out a single, disabled mother with no support in the UK as somehow privileged, because hey, at least they're not in India. If you think about the plight of that person, or of the kids in the UK who are turning up to school cold and hungry, and your instinct is to use them in an argument to show how lucky they actually are, then I am forced to think 'what the fuck is wrong with you?'.

I just find it utterly baffling that someone could look at the wealth disparity on display, and instead of thinking 'God I'm so lucky to have so much money that I fall into a higher tax bracket, there's an awful lot going on in the country to ensure that I actually have so much wealth' they think 'bastards are trying to take my money that I earned ALL BY MYSELF, how dare they, I'm going to try to fuck them over for trying to make the country a bit better for people who aren't me'.

I've said before that I don't really have an opinion on the VAT on private school fees either way, but these threads, dear god, have certainly given me an opinion on the way some wealthy people view their privilege.

The problem with the UK is that, when compared with many other European countries, the people on low and middle incomes pay a lot less tax. We keep
ramping up the burden on the highest paid and shouldn’t be surprised if some of them decide to leave. The UK is shit value for money for those on higher PAYE incomes, the health service is crap, childcare is astronomical and getting a decent state school is a postcode lottery. But people expect them to pay more and more for sweet FA.

And I find it utterly baffling that you fail to understand how important the economy is.

That everything depends on it.

That we have no fundamental rights to anything.

My comment was that we have a good economy in the UK. Every single one of us is better off in the UK than we would be in 90% of other countries. And I said that the government shouldn't fuck that up by assuming that nothing they do can damage the economy.

It was you who turned it into a rich vs poor thing. Not me.

You're the one banging on about what a marvellous country it is even when there are people in dire straits.

I understand how important the economy is. What I don't understand is what happens to some people's social conscience when they acquire more money than other people.

@noblegiraffe - you cannot be passionate about education per se if you are not going to speak up against a tax on education, out of some loyalty to a party.

VAT on private schools is Starmer’s version of Brexit. He tricked the left by introducing this policy as a nod to them, when really he is a Tory at core, as we have already seen. And a whole lot of kids in education across all sectors, many of whom have already been through Covid, are going to suffer.
And I hope Starmer pays for his mistake.
It is the whole Boris Johnson shite all over again, we absolutely all knew that Boris only signed up to Brexit to further his own agenda.
Now we have it all playing out all over again.

you cannot be passionate about education per se if you are not going to speak up against a tax on education, out of some loyalty to a party.

Which party do you think I'm loyal to?

Every single one of us is better off in the UK than we would be in 90% of other countries. Most especially the ones in dire straits.

Social conscience? You assume that there should always be more money, provided by 'other people'. But not by you.

One might say that a social conscience is what would make someone with a masters in maths go into teaching maths in state education rather than a high-earning career in finance...

“One might say that a social conscience is what would make someone with a masters in maths go into teaching maths in state education rather than a high-earning career in finance...“

One does not necessarily preclude the other. My DD had an outstanding Maths teacher at grammar who had retired from finance early and gone into teaching. And was and still is an outstanding teacher.

Sure, but someone trying to talk down to me because I don’t earn enough money to pay as much tax as them might do well to reflect on how important to the economy a numerate population is. And also how important to many high earning careers decent maths qualifications are.

High earners are standing on the shoulders of many, many people who earn less than them and yet some seem to think they made it on their own and owe no one anything.

My sister's grandson is leaving his prep school next July at the end of year 4 and will transfer to a church primary school. His mother is catholic and he is baptised and they have always attended church regularly so their parish priest has said that he will be very high up the waiting list if there are no vacancies immediately. Because the school is close to a military base there is always a certain level of churn anyway. My sister says the prep was good but now just too expensive to continue past this year. For secondary they will now aim for a Catholic secondary which again puts baptism and regular attendance as one of the top admittance criteria.

I'd say that statement showed a lack of understanding of the economy, more than it showed a social conscience.

I'm pretty sure that I personally do more good for state school kids in my current job - through the productivity and value I create in a skills shortage area which genuinely limits our economy - than I would if I were teaching. That may also be because I don't think I'd be a very good teacher!

My social conscience is clear.

I'm pretty sure that I personally do more good for state school kids in my current job

It is not coming across as your main motivation, tbh. It sounds like you also earn a lot of money that you want to hang onto.

Which do you think matters more? Motivation or outcome?

You can be a good person and give a ton of money to charities, including educational charities benefitting the poorest children. And at the same time be anti more tax because you simply do not believe the numpties in charge know what they are doing. There are plenty of people around now with this viewpoint.

“Sure, but someone trying to talk down to me because I don’t earn enough money to pay as much tax as them might do well to reflect on how important to the economy a numerate population is. And also how important to many high earning careers decent maths qualifications are.
High earners are standing on the shoulders of many, many people who earn less than them and yet some seem to think they made it on their own and owe no one anything.”

I do not think anyone is talking you down and I think you make a hugely valuable contribution to society @noblegiraffe . Education is always an investment and we should all value education and teachers highly.
However, allowing those in power to abuse their power and tax education which will lead to harm for many children, including children with SEND, and affect teachers’ livelihoods is not the answer. I do not know a single teacher, state or private, in real life who thinks taxing education is a good idea.
It is a nasty populist ruse and needs to be exposed as such. We cannot keep letting these politicians walk all over us as a society and our investment in the future. Some parents paying up for education will never be a bad thing if you take the view like me, that the more educated we all are, collectively, the better.