How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

Yep.

That's sloppy typing, I meant state sector.

I agree with your demographic observations but I'm not too sure the current angst is the trauma of the past. Radical left ideology has been on the raise for a number of years, and it's not the old folks who buy into it in droves, rather the opposite - Momentum is in fact a youth movement, and across the pond it's also the young who shout these slogans.

It's interesting to see middle aged people with children to be influenced by the radical ideas of equality and punishing "the rich" that are rooted in the French and Russian revolutions, have been thoroughly tested to their limits, proven to have their pros along with MANY contras, but are now being revived, and not just through the youth. And all this in a monarchy state! 🤣

Interesting times...

Don’t try to pit teachers against teachers! I have friends who work in private schools and obviously I hope their jobs are secure. If not, then as other posters have mentioned, there are plenty of vacancies in the state sector, or there is a massive Facebook support group for teachers who are considering leaving teaching with plenty of advice on alternative jobs. The civil service is quite popular.

The thing is, I’ve been posting for a long time about the terrible mess state education is in. Of course I understand parents who have the resources to choosing to opt out of that for their kids, just as I totally understand people who switch to private healthcare to ‘jump the queue’ on surgery or to actually get access to a doctor.

So I understand private school parents being pissed off by this policy. Do I think it’s a great policy that will fix state education? Obviously not.

However, parents who try to get other people to care about their ability to buy their way out of the state sector by whipping up hype about how it is going to destroy the state sector with them needing jumbo classes (mate, we are already there, pay attention) or whatever and pretending that it was actually virtuous of them to not take a state school place in the first place should put a sock in it. As should those who are now pretending that it’s ’no biggie’ to move from private to state and actually it’s better for them personally do this while at the same time they’re sticking up two fingers to the tax man - you aren’t kidding anyone.

The state sector has been in a dire state for years. If any of those parents now complaining about having to switch to state voted Tory over the last 14 years and contributed to that mess, then I guess maybe you should think about why you didn’t care when it was other people’s children who were affected by that, and why you think they should now care about yours.

I'm unclear why the men in those families couldn't reduce their hours?
We send ours to private school but DH and I each do slightly compressed hours so we can do pickups on days the children don't have sport or other clubs after school.

That's a decision that can be made at the household level, the government aren't mandating whether it's fathers or mothers who reduce their hours.

Good observation @Ubertomusic … youth in Anglophone countries moving left while in Continental Europe they are moving right.

I find all the finger pointing at the Tories or Labour tiresome. For me it’s all about demographics at the end of the day. We have known the baby boomers would age out all along. Neither side faced up to it. It’s now becoming urgent and difficult to ignore. All this fiddling and stirring doesn’t help. Each side identifies the problems as needing their own favourite solution - redistribution or lower taxes.

I think the answer is patient, long term investment. (Not redistribution dressed up as investment in the public sector, not tax breaks to the private sector dressed up as investment. Real investment, backed by our government, not PPI mark 2.)

Noble , you do an excellent job of highlighting how bad state schools now are.

Many private school parents care about the state of state schools. They can’t fix them. Parents have no power in state. They can change nothing without a law suit. And even then it’s unlikely to result in actual change. Hence why those parents chose to go private.

You tell us that class sizes are now massive and there are no teachers. Do you actually think this policy is going to help? At all?

Apparently your schools are full of vandals who destroy the toilets daily, warranting prison like conditions to be imposed on the entire student body. You want more kids in that system?

Discipline is apparently so bad that teachers are just fire fighting and no one is learning anything.

Teachers are being forced to teach subject they know nothing about.

Unaccountable MATs are stealing all the money in hug salaries for the executive. and so on…

None of which problems a few ex private parents can do anything about. They’re not magic.

Maybe the state school parents should give a Damn if the private parents cease to be able to pay. I’m sure that the area where all the privates are concentrated would kill for a massive influx of ADHD and ASD kids into the classrooms.

Maybe the state school parents will also care if the local private shut its doors and therefore removes the access to its pool/facilities for the neighbouring state schools.

Maybe the state parents who can’t afford the house near to the school should care that the private parents can easily outbid them for those houses and all the surrounding ones. And will.

Maybe the state school parents should wonder whether the total tax take will drop when the mothers (let’s be honest it won’t be the dads) go part time because they don’t have to pay fees now but do need to be able to cart the kids around to their extracurriculars (which used to be available for the state school kids but private parents clearly have sharp elbows).

It is a big deal to move from private to state. The two are very different beasts. But people will do what they have to, and will make sure it’s not their kid who suffers.

This is a dumb policy of envy that is going to be hammered with lawsuits from the disabled, the army, on competition law grounds and the net result will be that of the minority of parents who use private schools, only a small fraction will ultimately pay VAT.

The government is not going to make money, and is going to mortally wound one of our significant exports while they are at it. All for ‘new’ teachers who they won’t be able to hire anyway (as per the stats you post yearly).

However, parents who try to get other people to care about their ability to buy their way out of the state sector by whipping up hype about how it is going to destroy the state sector with them needing jumbo classes (mate, we are already there, pay attention) or whatever and pretending that it was actually virtuous of them to not take a state school place in the first place should put a sock in it.

I don't think people try to get other people to care about their ability etc - we're adults and understand that the society now is pretty much individualistic and cynical, the comments on MN and IRL like "rich bastards finally got it!" - and this is about children - attest to this so no high expectations really of care or even basic understanding. It's not quite Hobbesian war of all against all yet but is heading in that direction. That current policy is deliberately divisive is no surprise at all - it's the current trend worldwide. Someone has to be blamed for the economic deterioration and rapidly falling standards of living, and it's not going to be the elites 😆

Of course it could be the dads who reduce their hours, but in reality it mostly won’t be will it? In our area, which is SE commuter belt, there are still a lot of dads in jobs which require a daily commute, or in sectors which offer less flexibility so families have organised themselves so one parent works closer to the home location for the benefit of school children.
Besides, in most cases women have already taken the hit to their careers and salary with maternity leave, so it often makes sense for them to be the ones to cut their hours.

Well that's fine, but like I say, that's a household level thing to fix not a societal level issue. If women choose to go part time rather than split responsibility that's on them

Well that's fine, but like I say, that's a household level thing to fix not a societal level issue. If women choose to go part time rather than split responsibility that's on them

Read your post. State schools are full of vandals wrecking kids, teachers teaching out of subject, kids not able to learn, lack of money being siphoned off to MAT CEOS.

And you think that 'you won't like it when a bunch of well-off, academic kids join your school' angle is a threat? I've asked lots of teachers whether they are worried about this 'private school exodus' and none of them give a shit. We teach the kids in front of us, and if some of them are less of a drain on our resources than others, that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Over the last few years we've had 'influxes' of Afghans, Ukrainians, families from Hong Kong, so yeah, ones who aren't traumatised/can speak the language aren't going to raise an eyebrow. And ASD/ADHD? Meh, add them to the list.

Maybe the state school parents will also care if the local private shut its doors and therefore removes the access to its pool/facilities for the neighbouring state schools.

Maybe that private school could turn into a state school like some other private schools did when they were no longer financially viable, then way more state kids would have access to those fancy facilities.

The percentage of kids in private schools is tiny. The percentage of kids who will have to switch to state because of this policy is a small subset of that. From what some on here post, some kids switching to state school is going to cause the tax take to collapse. Maybe some parents will up their game and take on more hours to afford the increase, yet that doesn't seem to be mentioned, only the handwringing woe.

Agree. My children are in private school and I am honestly cringing at the attempts by some parents on here to try and make others think this is some kind of national disaster.

Most people I know who send their children private made sure they had a decent savings cushion/salary buffer for starters, so their children wouldn't face uncertainty. For those who were penny pinching already, before VAT, then I expect it will be better for them and their families to send the children to state school and use tutors etc to supplement rather than live such a financially precarious life.

@noblegiraffe
Maybe that private school could turn into a state school like some other private schools did when they were no longer financially viable, then way more state kids would have access to those fancy facilities.

Maybe it could. Maybe the premises include listed buildings and given I’m frequently reading about the poor state of repairs of many state schools and no funds to repair them, then how will expensive listed buildings be maintained?
’Fancy facilities’ also cost money to maintain.
It’s much more likely that the school’s buildings and grounds will be sold for housing.

To be fair as a private school parent I made sure I chose a school where our fees went on education not the upkeep of a crumbling listed building. Surely that's not a good use of a school's resources in either sector

Thank you for showing us peasants our place. How dare we send our talented children on bursaries to private schools while living hand to mouth. The cheek if it!

@Ubertomusic if you're on a bursary then hopefully the school will cover the increase in costs

Good. We need more houses.

I’m baffled by the women who are going to go part time to cover wrap around care. Don’t you think there are professional, two income families in the state sector who use nannies , childminders, after school clubs? Why aren’t these perfectly feasible alternatives used by your GP or Ed Psch person?

My children and their partners have ‘big’ jobs but very much felt they wanted their children to go to state schools. So they sorted childcare.

It feels like the anecdotal evidence of women going part time is more that they can now afford to go part time as they don’t have fees to pay. Perhaps that will enhance their lives? I expect the tax take will recover from this minority.

Nah, I had to uproot DC and move 150 miles away from family and friends. Previous school wouldn't cover anything.

Were there no schools within 150 miles?

@Ubertomusic are you now at a school that will cover the fees? 150 miles seems a really long way for a school

To be fair as a private school parent I made sure I chose a school where our fees went on education not the upkeep of a crumbling listed building. Surely that's not a good use of a school's resources in either sector
@WindsurfingDreams

No but if the school has listed buildings then by law they have to maintain them.
Eton, Stowe, Marlborough, Westminster etc all have numerous listed buildings, though they are probably safe for the time being.
However less well known schools such as Abingdon School is a large Victorian building which I’d be v surprised if it wasn’t listed. Likewise several of the buildings at Warminster School.
There will be loads of others.
Is the education budget able to pay for all that maintenance?

They wouldn't have to, this is such a bizarre thing to be worrying about. it's such a none- point it's unreal

I doubt, given the need for housing, many people will mind if the odd school site turns into housing.

Not for a national level talent at two months notice. Y'know, it's only developing countries pay their promising Olympic athletes, artists and musicians stipends and provide all educational infrastructure just so they continue delivering results uninterrupted. In Britain talent is apparently supposed to be inherited with money and peasants must not aspire to go to national teams or even private schools.

I am a private instrumental teacher and have a lot of kids at private schools. No one is leaving nor knows anyone who is leaving. Except in one school where they are leaving because the school is awful.