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Oh wise, wise people. Can you help me learn diplomacy skills before my meeting with ds's head teacher tomorrow? Please???

115 replies

avenanap · 14/04/2008 22:58

Ds, as you may be aware, was blessed with a few too many brain cells and very little social skills. The head basically told me I should pack him off to a strict boys boarding school at the end of last term. Their idea of supporting him was to tell him off constantly. I have been helping ds at home over the holiday and he is an almost reformed character. Ds is moving to a new school in September so, in an effort to make sure he's treated fairly in the current school and not told off for trivia (talking at lunch time etc), I am refusing to take him back. I have emailed them with my concerns regarding ds, they have asked me to go in tomorrow, they are offering to look after ds whilst I am chatting with the head. They "look forward to seeing ds tomorrow". I have no diplomacy skills, the head has previously told me ds is opinionated and uncaring. I got the impression that he didn't want ds at the school anyway so I thought I had done them a favour. How can I tell the head I don't think he knows what to do with a gifted child, that his methods are barbaric and do not follow my childrearing philosophy?

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pinkteddy · 14/04/2008 23:04

My suggestion is you downplay any accusation of fault - you probably know that you can't win this argument as they haven't listened to you so far - they are unlikely to now (haven't read any of your previous threads btw, am just surmising from your OP!)
I would say that in your opinion the school is not the right one for your son. He needs a different approach to help him achieve his potential and you feel you can get this from the new school. Any good?

avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:07

They know he's going in September anyway so I'm not sure why they want me to go in. It's private aswell. I did stick my law qualification at the bottom of the email I sent to them so I hope they are shitting themselves . I think they'll listen, I have a huge problem asserting myself though. I'm afraid I might call him a to**er and mess it up.

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pinkteddy · 14/04/2008 23:18

I guess because you are pulling him out now and there will be a gap before he starts the new school? Or maybe they just want to be 'seen' to have done something! Head sounds like a tosser - not surprised you feel tempted to call him one!

stealthsquiggle · 14/04/2008 23:23

I think you have to imagine him as a really stupid client to whom you are explaining things for the umpteenth time. Lay out what you want, what you are going to do if you don't get it, and how you plan to measure whether you get it or not (IYSWIM). Is it the sort of school that could be usefully creatively blackmailed with any of the associations of independent schools (headmasters conference and the like)?

avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:26

lol! They were very insistent I went in, I told them what time and I've had to do no negoitating whatsoever. He'll start new school in september, I was going to home ed for a term and use the school fees for a nice holiday . I have told them I have not got the fees for next term and that they owe me for the lack of pastoral care ds has recieved . I'd like him to go back though, he's got a good part in the school play and his teacher's nice. All the others just tell him off though. He was kicked out of the choir for laughing at another kid. It's pathetic. I don't see how doing things like this will help his social skills. Boarding school! I think not.

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avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:30

Stelth, it's possible. Head's after publicity. I can give him that . I'm looking for a term free considering some of the crap teachers they have employed and lack of care, plus written assurance of how ds is to be treated. Am I asking too much? I can sue them for misrepresentation (he promised me he had experience working with gifted children. I think not) and breach of contract due to the lack of pastoral care. He also knows I can gossip.

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ingles2 · 14/04/2008 23:30

avenanap,...make HT squirm,...you've made up your mind about ds's education, so sit, listen, nod sagely and make tosser do all the talking / explaining

seeker · 14/04/2008 23:33

I must be being stupid. You were paying for a service. It was crap. You have decided not to pay for that service any more. What right have the providers of the crap service got to call you in to a meeting?. Don't go. Put your thoughts into a letter if it will make you feel better, but otherwise, just shake the dust of the place off your feet and move on.

avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:34

I think he see's me as a pushover so I need to lay down the law to him. It's the only way I'll get anywhere. I've tried the nicey nicey approach. Sledghammer time now.

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avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:37

Seeker: ds will drive me bonkers if he's with me until september. I've had a 2 hour lecture on Lego tonight. If they are going to be fair to him they can have the pleasure of his Lego chatter for a term. I won't even charge them for this.

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seeker · 14/04/2008 23:46

Ok - officially baffled now. Can't work out whether you want him to go back or not. If it's as bad as you say, why would you want him to go back?

BTW - my dd would probably be kicked out of choir for laughing too. I suspect any school that takes music seriously would do the same.

avenanap · 14/04/2008 23:54

The music teacher was making an example of him, other kids mess about but they are still there. I'm confused. I like his teacher, he has no problems with ds, head's a prick but I can ignore him for a term (it's only 8 weeks), ds has alot of friends (strange for a kid that's 'uncaring'), good part in the play. He's just told off for the most pathetic things, I would like to sort this out. ds's attitude is completely different since I've been working with him on the social skills side, but this is what they should have been doing, I expect them to work with me for the benefit of ds but they have not done this. ds has had a very bad teacher who was fired after a term (this academic year). ds did little work. Was a complete waste of time and money. I would like him to finish but for ds to be treated fairly, no more using him to make all the other kids behave. Am I being unreasonable?

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scaryteacher · 15/04/2008 09:51

OK, teachers are there to teach academic subjects, and do some pastoral care, but we are NOT your child's parent, and his social skills, or lack of, are down to you. If you want your ds educated in a way that follows your child rearing philosophy, then I'm afraid that you will have to home ed him permanently, or pay for a tutor. Schools have rules, otherwise there would be chaos, and no teaching would be done.

Children have to learn to follow some rules, otherwise we are doing them no favours in preparing them for life outside school, when they leave education. How will your ds hack it in a work environment if he can't cope with criticism, constructive or otherwise; or follow the rules of the organisation he works for?

The other thing that strikes me, and I have read some of your other threads on this, is that you are wanting special treatment for ds. That is totally divisive, and will soon be noticed by the other children, and they will act accordingly. You are setting him up for a problem here. Children are some of the cruellest beings on the planet, so be careful.

If all the teachers are telling him off, could it just be possible that they are right? We are professional reasonable people on the whole, and will go out of our way to help children. However, if there is something that he is doing that all the teachers are complaining about, then listen to them. They are the ones who deal with children on a daily basis, and will have seen all types of behaviour before. I had this with ds at his prep; I worked on the problem with him, and things improved at school. The same problem is cropping up at home and in secondary school, and again, he needs reminding that he mustn't talk over people; and needs to put his hand up before answering.

The school is run for many children, not just your ds, and it is unreasonable to expect his needs to be put before others. The other parents are paying fees too, and expect value for money. You have not got the money to pay the fees....don't expect the other parents to subsidise you, that would really tick me off, and is unfair to them.

You may also like to consider that however 'gifted' a child may be, they have to demonstrate to their teachers that they can handle the basics before being given more challenging work. There is little point in giving a student calculus to tackle if he can't handle basic numeracy for example. If your ds isn't doing the basics well and competently, I wouldn't give him more advanced work until I was happy he could handle it and that it wouldn't knock his confidence if he got it wrong, or couldn't quite deal with it.

Please think about the label you are putting on your son. He needs to be a child and do the childish things, rather than be hot housed. My ds can be challenging, and he was considered very bright by his prep, but I didn't make an issue of it, as I wanted him to enjoy his education, not be weighed down by a label which meant there was a constant expectation that he would always achieve more academically than anyone else. That's a sure fire way to turn them off completely, and for them to be called a geek, a boff and a swot at school, which for the child are negative and damaging labels, so they stop trying. I have seen this with my ds, and with the gifted, able and talented students that I've taught.

Lastly, and I'm sorry that this is a long post, step back and look at your attitude to the school. I know that we all get wrapped up in our little darlings and think that the world revolves around them; it doesn't. From what I've read on here, I would have run the other way down the corridor if I'd seen you coming, to discuss your ds with me, as it always seems to be the school or teachers that are in the wrong. The school has a valid point of view as well. You need to stop and listen to them, and take what they say on board. You have a law qualification so therefore you must have been trained to have some objectivity; use it, please. Schools try to do their best for their students; the private ones wouldn't stay in business long if they weren't good at it, so you need to listen to what they say. There is also a bush telegraph between schools, so any reputation you have at this school as an unreasonable parent will have made / will make it's way to the new school, so be warned!

End of post. Hope it helps.

mrz · 15/04/2008 11:12

Cancel the meeting and do the school a favour.

Loshad · 15/04/2008 11:20

Excellent post Scaryteacher, can't put it any better but agree totally.

twinsetandpearls · 15/04/2008 11:24

Have not read your other threads so i may be about to put my foot in it. But reading you thread i am cringing and am in agreement with scaryteacher.

Twiglett · 15/04/2008 11:28

agree with scaryteacher's post in it's entirety

soapbox · 15/04/2008 11:33

And another

I was cringing last night when I read this but wasn't sure how to say it - ST has articulated my feelings very well indeed

ahundredtimes · 15/04/2008 11:35

Oh dear. This is a bit confusing Avenap.

What is behind the post and the meeting?

Reading between the lines - it seems to be that you are not going to pay for the summer term, and have not given them the proper period of notice. Is that right?

So you are trying to find reasons to not pay the school the money owing to them, by saying they have breached the contract?

Sounds like dodgy ground to me - for all the reasons ST has outlined.

I would go for a full and non-confrontational meeting, agreeing to send him back for the summer term, and to pay the fees, and see it out to the end of term.

batters · 15/04/2008 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stealthsquiggle · 15/04/2008 12:04

Hmm - avenanap I have to say that when I posted before I hadn't realised that you were proposing not to pay the fees or quite the extent of what you were asking of the school. I think I agree with scaryteacher - if the same feedback is coming from multiple teachers, chances are they have a point. In any case, you need to go in with a constructive approach, not an "I'm right and you're wrong" one.

Good Luck anyway. I hope you work it out, for DS's sake.

GooseyLoosey · 15/04/2008 12:36

To be fair to avenanap, I'm not sure that I agree that teachers have no role in relation to social skills at reception level (and I think that is what we are talking about). Ds's school says that the primary purpose of reception is to get children used to the school environment and working in the way the school expects and I assume that this is the norm. This surely involves helping children interact in a group environment and conform to particular standards of behaviour. I whole heartedly agree that I am primarily responsible for my child's behaviour but when in a new school environment and new things are being expected, I think the teachers have a responsibility too.

I also think that while several teachers telling a child off may well be indicative of issues with the child, children can be "labelled" as problematic which can IME result in teachers picking up on behaviour which would be acceptable from another child. If this has happened it is not fair and does need to be dealt with.

scaryteacher · 15/04/2008 12:43

From a previous thread, OPs ds is year 4/5, so not reception.

I think teachers IME judge children as individuals and don't always take what other teachers say into account. I only judged my students on how they behaved for me. If that behaviour was also displayed to other teachers, be it bad or good, then the behaviour was down to the child perhaps? I had a set standard of behaviour in my classroom, and woe betide anyone who deviated from it. When I took ds to school for a 'take your child to work day' he was subject to the same discipline as the rest of them, and he was at primary, and they were secondary.

marina · 15/04/2008 12:47

Fantastic post there scaryteacher

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