Oh wise, wise people. Can you help me learn diplomacy skills before my meeting with ds's head teacher tomorrow? Please???

[avenanap]

Ds, as you may be aware, was blessed with a few too many brain cells and very little social skills. The head basically told me I should pack him off to a strict boys boarding school at the end of last term. Their idea of supporting him was to tell him off constantly. I have been helping ds at home over the holiday and he is an almost reformed character. Ds is moving to a new school in September so, in an effort to make sure he's treated fairly in the current school and not told off for trivia (talking at lunch time etc), I am refusing to take him back. I have emailed them with my concerns regarding ds, they have asked me to go in tomorrow, they are offering to look after ds whilst I am chatting with the head. They "look forward to seeing ds tomorrow". I have no diplomacy skills, the head has previously told me ds is opinionated and uncaring. I got the impression that he didn't want ds at the school anyway so I thought I had done them a favour. How can I tell the head I don't think he knows what to do with a gifted child, that his methods are barbaric and do not follow my childrearing philosophy?

As a teacher I do think some children arrive with a "label" BUT I think teachers are able to make up their own minds about children and are not influenced by others. An 8 year old child who's behaviour is such a concern to so many teachers clearly needs parents to work with the school to address the problem or I afraid it can only get worse.

It is a bit confusing exactly what you want, Avenap.

Do you want to take ds out of school and stop paying the fees, though the school has not been given the required notice?

Or do you want ds to attend school for another term, despite not being able to pay the fees?

Either way, sounds quite dodgy. A private school needs the money to run on: whether they are good at pastoral care or whether a particular pupil is very gifted is neither here nor there. If you have signed up for a product, then you need to pay until you have cancelled the contract. If you don't have the money, that is really not the school's concern: most of us don't have the money for school fees, and they can't subsidise us all.

The only way I can see that this can work is to pay the fees to within the required time of notice, regardless of whether ds attends or not. And be prepared to show that you are giving him an adequate home education if he is absent from school for a term.

But if what you are saying is that you are expecting the school to waive the fees, then that is asking a lot, regardless of what verbal promises may have been made in the past. You seem to think that your ds has special rights because he is gifted. But the world is full of gifted children; they can't do special deals for them all.

I'm about this whole scenario.

I'm not expecting them to waive the fees nor do I intend not to pay them, tempting as it is. When ds started I made a committment (sp?) to the school. It's a business. It's irrelevant how ds has been treated. There are only two teachers that treat ds unfairly by being constantly on his back and shouting at him, the others do not have any problems with him. I am aware that he needs to be able to work with all types of people, regardless of their personality as this is real life and I don't think that keeping him in a cocoon will be of benefit for him. I do not want to take him out of the school, I just wanted to try and make sure that he has the same discipline as all of the other children. I am aware that ds can be a handful (opinionated and a bit selfish), I am not that oblivious, I have always tried to work with the school to try and find a way of managing this to make everyones life a bit easier, I have been there for meetings and have taken action/disciplined ds when it has been needed and have supported them, even when I feel that a telling off has been unjustified. He's well behaved in the class room, his work is not a problem. I do not expect the school to alter his behaviour, he is responsible for how he behaves, he needs guidance though, just like any other child. I don't think I am asking too much for him to recieve this. All I am asking is that any discipline is fair. I do not expect for him to be permanently removed from choir because he's laughing at another child who's messing around, there were other chilren laughing as well, he was the only one who was told not to return. I don't see how this is fair treatment. Nor do I expect him to be taken out of the dinner hall for talking when the whole table was having a natter. Nor do I expect him to be the only child left in his classroom when the other children are at a sports match. I am aware that there are two sides to children, the one they have at home and the one they have at school. The meeting went well, it has been decided that the two teachers will send ds to another teacher if they are having a problem. The other teacher (he's nice but fair and firm) will listen to what he has done/said and discipline accordingly.

Parents come on this site for support and help from other parents that have been in the same position. I don't expect anyone to egg me on, as the title say's, I wanted to be diplomatic in getting things across to a head that thinks he's always right. I have managed to do this but these negative comments are unneeded.Please remember that people on this site are asking for help rather then a bitching session.

avenanap I am really glad it went well. You did write 'I'm looking for a term free' at one stage which may have aggravated the thread somewhat.

FWIW my DS's school has a head who sounds like yours - and is one of the reasons that DS is unlikely to stay there beyond the point where we have the pre-prep head as a buffer between us and the head.

I've been following this saga for a couple of weeks now. I agree totally with Scaryteacher's assessment.

I look at it and see it as Precious Child Syndrome.

A lot of private school parents expect individual attention for their children, but they don't realise that they are not paying for a governess - they are paying for them to be educated with 15 other children in a class (give or take).

When things don't go to plan, the child is 'picked on' - without any question as to be why this is so. Really, what does the school have to gain by that?

Prep schools do not, on the whole, cater to or pander to free spirits. They are very much into a more team spirit, and nurture children so that they will fit in with their class and house. The ones that don't face disapproval from staff and pupils alike. The ethos of most schools is that talents and academic ability will be nurtured to the full, but without a 'me' culture. There is no I in TEAM.

scaryteacher wasn't bitching (neither was anyone else), it's just an alternative point of view, based on what you have posted on this thread and others. Being "diplomatic" does involve having insight into the opposite point of view. You didn't seem to have much of that. You said you "have no diplomacy skills", and in light of that I think scaryteacher was being extremely helpful. A diplomat would thank her for her input

PMT and wine. Dangerous combination. I'm not a freeloader. I thought I put a grin after that!! Thought people could take a joke.

I never know how to handle people like this. I always get pushed into agreeing with them.

'How can I tell the head I don't think he knows what to do with a gifted child, that his methods are barbaric and do not follow my childrearing philosophy?''did stick my law qualification at the bottom of the email I sent to them so I hope they are shitting themselves''I have told them I have not got the fees for next term and that they owe me for the lack of pastoral care ds has received''Head's after publicity. I can give him that grin. I'm looking for a term free considering some of the crap teachers they have employed and lack of care, plus written assurance of how ds is to be treated. Am I asking too much? I can sue them for misrepresentation (he promised me he had experience working with gifted children. I think not) and breach of contract due to the lack of pastoral care. He also knows I can gossip.'

I stand by my earlier post Avenanap. You are inconsistent in your posts...make up your mind. You are the one making the negative/bitchy comments about other people. You asked for advice, you got it. The Head got his post because he's an experienced teacher, who has an overview of the big picture and can see what's best for all the children, not just yours. That's his job, you stick to yours. You didn't get a bitching session my dear, you got a straight and honest response. Reread your posts that I've copied and pasted above, and then ask yourself what they sound like. If you have nothing positive to say about the school, then pull your ds out, home ed him til June, then have the summer off, oh no, I forgot....
'ds will drive me bonkers if he's with me until september. I've had a 2 hour lecture on Lego tonight. If they are going to be fair to him they can have the pleasure of his Lego chatter for a term. I won't even charge them for this. If you can't deal with him, then don't mank that the school finds him heavy going either!

No. The head got the post because he brought the school. His experience is all of 3 years, he's 2 years older then me. I can handle him perfectly well, have you never said anything in jest to make a bad situation a bit more tolerable?

Well said scaryteacher

Based on what avenanap has written on this thread I think scary teacher's assessment and advice is realistic, thoughtful and appropriate. It is certainly not bitching.

I hope your ds will be happier at his new school and that you can both see it as a fresh start.

Excellent posts scaryteacher-I agree with all of them.

avenanap, My DS (much younger than yours and has SN) was obviously quite unwanted in the nursery of pre-prep at my DD's school. They did actually waive the term's notice period as it wasn't in either parties interests for him to continue his education there.

He is now happier in an indepenent school with a different ethos.

otoh, if he is in yr 4/5 he is surely old enough to understand social skills unless he has some issues? It, imho, is not the job of a yr 4/5 teacher to teach social skills, these are generally learnt much lower in the school.

I should imagine, like any independent school worth the fees, they are used to having 'gifted' children, especially those being pushed towards 11+ or Common Entrance for top Public schools but perhaps not set up to cope with, erm, spirited children.

Thankyou marmaduke. I know that there have been children there that are alot worse. ds has skipped a year which doesn't help him. He was moved from a state school which was put in special measures because of the lack of discipline. There are only 2 teachers who have a problem with him, these are the ones the head is going to ask to send him to someone else if ds is rude. As far as I am aware, ds can be a bit of a clown, he likes to crack jokes to make people laugh. He can also say things that he shouldn't (yeah, yeah, etc), which put's people's back up. I'm trying to help him at home but as I don't know what he's been saying at school I'm stuck. They have concentrated on the academic stuff more then the social side of things. Being an only child doesn't help him, he's bright aswell so finds it hard to talk to his peers at their level so uses jokes as a way in. He's trying though, he has always prefered adult chat. He does have social skills otherwise. There are just a couple of areas (empathy being one) that he's catching up on.

Thankyou marmaduke. I know that there have been children there that are alot worse. ds has skipped a year which doesn't help him. He was moved from a state school which was put in special measures because of the lack of discipline. There are only 2 teachers who have a problem with him, these are the ones the head is going to ask to send him to someone else if ds is rude. As far as I am aware, ds can be a bit of a clown, he likes to crack jokes to make people laugh. He can also say things that he shouldn't (yeah, yeah, etc), which put's people's back up. I'm trying to help him at home but as I don't know what he's been saying at school I'm stuck. They have concentrated on the academic stuff more then the social side of things. Being an only child doesn't help him, he's bright aswell so finds it hard to talk to his peers at their level so uses jokes as a way in. He's trying though, he has always prefered adult chat. He does have social skills otherwise. There are just a couple of areas (empathy being one) that he's catching up on.

oops. Why does it do that?

He doesn't do this all the time, he's learning that it is not a good thing for him to be doing. He's picking this up from older children at his school, I'm doing my best to show him that this is not what he's supposto be saying. Is there anything else I can do?

Hate to say it but he sounds at times disruptive in a class environment. Doesn't matter how bright he is he has to learn to tow the line and he will have to at his new school too or you run the risk of history repeating itself. Does he have specific targets(IEP even?). Think your best tack is to agree how every teacher should deal with his behaviour , consistently. Your ds is old enough and savvy enough to understand what is wrong with what he sometimes does at school, and you cannot be distratced by the fact others may do so too,. You can set standards for your ds' behaviour but not others unfortunately, nor are you there at the time to witness events.

Obviously your issues are longstanding and are unlikely to be resolved now but if he is to be educated this term you need to come to some sort of truce with the head, how he is to be treated fairly as you put it, and that includes you paying for him attending.

Boarding school

Boarding school

The best thing that you can do is find the diplomacy and work with the school. Being antagonistic is no help. People often put their qualifications on their letters when they are complaining-I don't think that you would have liked the reaction it got-not the one you intended!!

You've already undermined any authority his teachers had and I'm shocked at the head pandering to your whims.

He's never disruptive. He does not shout out, he puts his hand up, he works hard. He does not talk to the person sitting next to him. He does not have behavioural problems, he's not violent, he's not aggressive, he's not destructive. Once he is asked to stop doing something he stops. He just forgets to engage brain before opening mouth sometimes. We're all guilty of that. He likes to laugh but not in class. I fail to see how boarding school would help him.