Stop / reduce suspensions for disruptive and vulnerable children

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jul/20/english-schools-to-phase-out-cruel-behaviour-rules-as-labour-plans-major-education-changes

I would be interested in what people think about this. Being shy and bullied (and very academic) as a child, I would be inclined to feel sorry for the children who just are trying to learn. I would also assume that this will make it much harder for the teachers…

of course the vulnerable and disruptive children need support but is this the right way? My DS is very disruptive and has had numerous detentions but never a suspension. I would assume that the bar for that already is very high? But happy to be told otherwise.

And a big Sunday fuck you to all the handwringers who are against it.
"Handwringers"?
Is that directed at the parents expressing concern and frustration that their child is regularly being assaulted?

God, no!!

They should be making it easier, not harder, to suspend and exclude.

Too many kids are kept in schools where they are learning nothing and wrecking everyone else's education.

What we need is more funding for specialised SEN provision/funding for specialists to come and support in small groups or 1:1 in schools, and more forms of alternative provision for children unable to cope in a mainstream setting.

All children need boundaries and teachers need to be able to have respect and authority to enforce appropriate ones. For children who cannot cope with sensible and appropriate boundaries, further support is needed - at the moment this support has been cut and cut and cut.

Please read my previous post about funding, we spend a perfectly acceptable amount on SEN, it’s the demand that is rising.

I left teaching this year after 13 years. Behaviour wasn’t the main reason but it has certainly declined very rapidly over the past few years and added to a list of reasons that made me rethink my career.

I think that in another world this initiative could work and be effective but in the current system just won’t work. There needs to be a complete overhaul of education that this initiative could be a part of but realistically, currently, this is just trying to put a plaster over a lost limb.

A year ago or so I was on a thread about gentle parenting (for pre-schoolers). A vocal minority on that thread were very firm that any kind of discipline for 2/3yos who push or hit other children is unacceptable as it destroys their sense of self worth (or something like that). Only long discussions about "Big Feelings" was acceptable. Strictly no time outs as that would make them feel excluded. Not even a disapproving tone as that would lead to feelings of rejection and shame which has long lasting effects. So they said.

I pointed out my dd was often shoved over by boys at nursery, and about how that made HER feel. These parents insisted I should "work on her resilience".

I agree with this. Still, in the meantime something workable needs to be put in place.

It’s laughable that poster is blaming Victorian punishments - when was the last time corporal punishment was used in schools? We are softer now than ever, and it’s created a generation of aggressive, entitled, anxious, needy kids whose parents simply double down on their useless methodology. They’ll never acknowledge their parenting, while well intentioned, has been completely ineffective and instead seek to blame teachers, society, the government, anyone but themselves

This is utter nonsense. Have you ever seen a properly written EHCP? A good EHCP aims to help a child achieve to the best of their potential, and in particular to help them achieve independence and ability to take part in society. I know there are far too many badly written EHCPs out there, but that is down to a serious lack of adequate training for Educational Psychologists and local authority case officers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5012620-to-think-gentle-parenting-is-being-taken-too-far

@whereisbebeschambre themes on here very similar to what you were saying. Especially from about page 30, they were all insisting that boys who pushed my dd over should have no consequences at all and Especially not any feelings of shame or regret

It’s more down to money.

We have an EHCP for Dd. They like to crafty it in a way where none of the interventions are timed or specified correctly.

Fortunately we fought it. But getting an EHCP is just the start.

You want parents to give a load of strangers carte blanche to assault their children?

Think about the children in those class who simply couldn't complete the task due to dyslexia, or because they had been up all night looking after their sick parent, or because they had been ill and off school themselves? Think of the utter fear of sitting there knowing that some maniac was going to beat you till he drew blood and there was nothing you could do about it. Is that really what we should be aspiring to?

Absolutely look at all the posters who blame 'the system'.

So how do you account for, for instance, the increasing numbers of non-verbal children with severe learning difficulties now in mainstream classes because there are not enough specialist places for them? Is that really all down to parenting?

No public service is ever going to have as much effect on a child as their parents. Lay the foundations - proper sleep, proper food, read to them, teach them the word ‘no’ from a young age (my 15 month old will stop doing something if asked). Don’t let them run riot and choose their own bedtime/meal/screen use until 3 ‘because they’re too little for discipline’ then flail around trying to impose boundaries on a kid whose brain has developed to believe they can do exactly as they like. Rather than rushing to CAMHS, or whinging about the school ‘not doing enough’, look at your parenting and your home. Confiscate your ‘anxious’ 14 year old’s mobile, don’t harp on about them ‘using it to regulate’ when all they’re doing is mainlining anxiety inducing shite from social media.

Where do you suggest suspended or excluded children should go, given their right to full time education and provision for their SEN?

As children with SEN are so disproportionately affected by exclusions, do you think it might be an idea to address those SEN first?

No, because I’m referring to mild problems like ‘anxiety’ or ‘impulse control’ etc.

Like you I believe there has been a MASSIVE rise in the type of child with the profile you describe but I’m at a loss as to why, I suspect it’s environmental but it’s really concerning.

It’s not the problem of other parents, that’s for their own families to sort out. In the same way they say the children their kid attacks aren’t their problem.

No one wants to be a TA if they are going to be assaulted, which is what is happening more and more nowadays.
It’s no good saying they just need a 1:1 so they can have a human punch bag.
If a child assaults an adult or another child, they should be removed from school as a consequence, whether that’s temporary or permanent.

Equally it’s not okay to give children carte blanche to assault adults or other children either.

Why not? We already are.

Again, just because the one assaulting the other children has ADHD does not diminish the resulting trauma.

It is not as simple as blaming bad parenting, otherwise 'the system' is without culpability, which is what we're lead to believe. The insidious harm of blame shifting /lack of accountability between both parties ultimately does not serve the child.

Proper funding with proper distribution of funds in education can only ameloriate issues faced by schools. Nationwide consultation on long term planning for reducing exclusions and the causes thereof too.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/630721 As you can see from the risible number, banning isolation booths is not popular.

I don't blame the parents. They're between a rock and a hard place, and I fully acknowledge that I couldn't do it at all let alone do it any better. Nor do I blame classroom teachers. I fully blame the goverment and on a smaller scale school leadership teams.

I do cover so I see the best and worst of teenagers on a daily basis.
I have two degrees and QTS.
I have been used as a stop gap for two years running to cover classes permanently, not in my specialist subject.
I said this year, no more.
Here's what I do know:
In a class of 25 mixed ability year 7 students - irrespective of additional needs - in the first two weeks in September you barely see a peep out of them. You can identify in those two weeks the children who will struggle to self-regulate, even without seeing learning plans (If they even have one, many are undiagnosed, some will arrive with nothing on their record from primary at all) : one or two stand out for talking out of turn but the vast majority are on their best behaviour even if masking. They have equipment, don't swing on their seats or turn around and are listening - or at least doing a good impression of it.
These same children nine months later no longer all make that choice - and it is in many cases a choice - and a few disrupt where they can.

Not all disruptive children have SEN, not all are on a pathway, not all are undiagnosed, not all are LAC, not all have trauma - this applies to some, yes, but there are others who misbehave just because they can.
Whilst I hate to see cover and supply all tarnished with the same brush, noble is correct in saying that many will try it on and do so on a regular basis.
It is bloody unfair on the majority and the invisible - the ones in the middle who are not seen as gifted or seen as SEND or seen as level 4s if pushed - they grit their teeth, ignore the chaos and just get on.
Mixed ability teaching to the top does not help, whether you have scaffolding or extension work or not - there are just too many in each class now that need interventions.

As for Learning Support Assistants - very rarely do I see them now in class as a 1-1 - some scant research stated they enabled students and would be better served as a general supervisor whilst the teacher/specialist was meant to teach the SEND themselves. So PowerPoint - set the work - LSA supervises - Teacher deals with SEND then comes back to board for moving on/feedback/plenary.
I have been in the business a long time but have yet to see this model work well.

Restorative justice and warm-strict are now the new buzzwords but they won't stop the students who cannot or don't want to behave in the classroom from ruining a lesson.

You need specialist units for EBD, ASC and ADHD in each school as a separate wing, where students have a safe space but can access mainstream lessons that work for them then return to the units when needed. Especially as part-time timetables are frowned upon these days too, because of attendance figures.
You'd be lucky to get one of these specialist units per authority - and some are being closed as I speak - so schools have always had to come up with their own Learning Support or Emotional Support bases, which can help up to six at a time.

With such large numbers of undiagnosed needs, schools are simply overwhelmed and teachers are being blamed (I have colleagues criticised for exiting "too many" from a class when they were following policy).
We have been told PRUs are full, there is nowhere for the potential-excluded to go, it's only 2 per year group who are the hardest cases - ime, that's not true - it's 3-4 per class that can cause havoc - but staff are now feeling they are blamed for not scaffolding enough/having enough adaptive teaching/having enough formative assessment/having enough questioning/having exit tickets etc
Teacher-blaming is easier than dismantling and restructuring the system as a whole which needs to happen. Not just because education isn't a one-size-fits-all but because we need to address what education should be for, the impact of industry 4.0 and AI on future jobs, sustainability and climate change...what do our future generations need.