Stop / reduce suspensions for disruptive and vulnerable children

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jul/20/english-schools-to-phase-out-cruel-behaviour-rules-as-labour-plans-major-education-changes

I would be interested in what people think about this. Being shy and bullied (and very academic) as a child, I would be inclined to feel sorry for the children who just are trying to learn. I would also assume that this will make it much harder for the teachers…

of course the vulnerable and disruptive children need support but is this the right way? My DS is very disruptive and has had numerous detentions but never a suspension. I would assume that the bar for that already is very high? But happy to be told otherwise.

You made up your own conclusion. I clearly stated that it doesn't mean mainstream classes should be disrupted.

Also as the parent of a nicely behaved child in an SEN school, don't see why my child automatically gets to have all the badly behaved children sent to his school, regardless of whether his sen school can support them either? Its hasn't solved the problem. It's just protected mainstream children.

Also, is there a social expectation that they bring up their children to respect the adults in their lives, irrespective of everything else?

Nothing is solved by waving a magical wand, so I don't understand your point.

Sweeping excluded children under the carpet is not even putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. Exclusion is shortsighted and only serves to further marginalise vulnerable pupils.

Unless serious crime is/crimes are committed, pupils should not be excluded. Criminal activity in educational settings ought to equal more special educational units for excluded 10 - 18 year olds with highly trained, high ratio of, staff.

Pupils who exhibit low level behaviours are struggling not just because of bad parenting. Class sizes are at an all time high, staffing levels at all time low and the funding for a well rounded education in mainstream and SEND schools is just not there. The impact of social media on pupils and the over reliance on tech are also not being addressed.
There are so many more ways the govt and DfE could deal with disruptive behaviour of pupils through nationwide consultation on blanket policies and procedures for behaviour, use of tech and uniform and so on. Why is there no action being taken on this??

Tackling the problem with immediate support through heavy funding and dealing with root causes head on (also only possible with proper funding) is needed if a long term solution is ever to be realised. It is not as simple as casting out vulnerable pupils.

It’s not as simple as “want to learn” and “want to mess about”. My son wants to learn, but emotionally and developmentally he is two or three years behind his peers. What this means in year 2 is that he is constantly shouting out and getting out of his chair like a foundation age child might, and getting very frustrated because he can’t do age expected tasks like write.

if he was the only child doing this it might be ok but there are around 6 with similar behaviour, probably undiagnosed SEN, and the school has no money for TAs.

Fortunately I have fought v hard to get my son support, he has a 1:1 who is also supporting the other 5 . If I hadn’t got this the school would be absolutely stuffed.

we have a school system that just is not set up for increasing numbers of kids with SEN whose difficulties have been compounded by lockdown which has delayed them further.

I don’t know what the answer is but I would try the following:
more funding for Sen support without relying on parents getting private diagnoses or going to court
Make all schools more SEN friendly so that they can accommodate a wider range of children without spending £££
more early intervention before they start school
more realistic curriculum with more time spent on activities that are enjoyable, give a sense of achievement and develop social skills
More work focussed curriculum rather than trying to make everyone academic

A massive part of the problem is the lack of places in alternative provision for these children. We have children who should not be in mainstream school who have been assessed to need AP but no places available.

Sen budgets for schools and services have been slashed and this breakdown in behaviour is a result of that. Unless labour is willing to fund better services and support for SEN and more places for AP all I can see is more and more teachers leaving.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I suspect there are fewer children with ‘needs’ as parents parent better, there is respect for education, better discipline and less UPFs/screen use. Until we put some very harsh measures on the British public (won’t happen) this will continue unfortunately.

It’s not as simple as “want to learn” and “want to mess about”. My son wants to learn, but emotionally and developmentally he is two or three years behind his peers.

This. There's an expectation that every child should be on par with their peers and adhere to the textbook theory of childhood development. It's outdated nonsense from the stiff upper lip, seen and not heard, adult-centric victorian era.

You haven't looked at the child poverty figures? You merely want to punish parents rather than support them?

So what is the alternative? Are the other children supposed to be working at two-three year deficit to accomidate the learning needs of the lowest denominator? Should year levels be dicatated by learning level rather than age? But if so, where is the limit? Should we have 5 year olds mixing with 12 year olds? How do we safeguard that, especially in cases were the 12 year olds are physically aggressive?

What happens when they’re adults and the public around them won’t intricately readjust themselves to ‘meet their needs’?

Open more special schools and special units. More funding.

From where? Which service would you cut to fund it? Labour have admitted there is no more money for SEN, it has more than its fair share and other services are suffering to accommodate it.

I agree with you, that's not fair if yoir child is well behaved. My point is children who are disruptive, SEN or not, should not be able to disrupt other children. The outcome of that situation is no one learns.

There needs to be significantly more support for students who are struggling, not just an overworked assistant head of head and an underfunded SEND department.

But that takes us back to the problem identified by @Frowningprovidence

Why should her child who attends a special needs school but is educationally at level and non-aggressive have to be exposed to it anymore than mainstream children?

I would say the alternative is a much more adapted classroom where children who can’t sit still can go to a standing desk, or got out in the resource area for a bit and complete the same work with a TA. Have some children going to another classroom to do activities that will build up their core strength and hand strength to support sitting and eventually writing. More physical activity, spread throughout the day. More special school places for those who can’t cope even in an adapted environment. Of course this all requires money.

I'll happily pay more tax and NI for it to happen.

More research should be put into what is causing this in the first place. Funding special schools is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff

With 62p out of every £1 of council funding spent on social care, very few people would get on board with an increase, and rightly so

Agree.

I think there has been a devastating, tragic mistake in the way we think about discipline, normal child development and the basics of good child health.

There is a huge public appetite for public sector services that work properly. A decent government could certainly make the argument for extra money in the system to go into improving these instead of tax cuts, and for tax rises that would have a visible impact on improving services. A large amount of mainstream media in recent times has been about the need for tax cuts, and yet the public just overwhelmingly booted out the government that kept trying to implement them.

This research suggests that of Western European countries re child poverty the UK is close to France and Germany - though slightly worse than either - and better than Italy and Spain.

We’re in the middle of the chart globally and do slightly better than Canada, which I find a little surprising.

https://firstfocus.org/update/keeping-up-with-progress-how-the-u-s-can-follow-the-worlds-lead-on-child-poverty/

(I don’t know much about First Focus, but they seem legit. And the following link more or less corroborates the FF chart and uses OECD figures: https://www.statista.com/statistics/264424/child-poverty-in-oecd-countries/)

All we seem to do is ‘support’ people who can’t be bothered to do the most basic things for themselves. All we have done is create more dependence and entitlement. We need to increase what we give directly to parents - all in favour of free meals/books/dentists at school for example - and stop the endless expensive and useless scaffolding we put around the parents.

Absolutely-lots does boil down to money, but, I think we need to start with keeping teachers though.

Why are so many leaving? If we reduce workload and reduce/remove the stress of Ofsted, maybe more will stay. If the curriculum is reduced (NOT a whole new curriculum please, Labour-as this will create massive amounts of work for teachers!) and testing reduced, then perhaps we will have more time to do things other than phonics and writing so that children will enjoy school more. feel happier, build good relations with their staff (who are happier and familiar as they are staying). Those things could be done reasonably cheaply as a good start, I feel.

If you scrapped Ofsted I would consider staying. We will be due again in about 2 years and I just cannot go through that again. My plan is to have left by then.