Stop / reduce suspensions for disruptive and vulnerable children

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jul/20/english-schools-to-phase-out-cruel-behaviour-rules-as-labour-plans-major-education-changes

I would be interested in what people think about this. Being shy and bullied (and very academic) as a child, I would be inclined to feel sorry for the children who just are trying to learn. I would also assume that this will make it much harder for the teachers…

of course the vulnerable and disruptive children need support but is this the right way? My DS is very disruptive and has had numerous detentions but never a suspension. I would assume that the bar for that already is very high? But happy to be told otherwise.

The problems in schools started when teachers stopped being able to discipline pupils . The naughty pupils knew nothing would happen and they disrupted classes for everyone else which is unfair on the majority. I accept there will be some who are neurodiverse but some are just badly parented. We need some sort of sanctions in place to protect other pupils and teachers and to stem the flow of talented teachers leaving the profession .

I nearly quit teaching this year because behaviour in my classroom meant many lessons were disrupted beyond the point anyone can learn.
If consequences are removed/reduced I will leave teaching.
I can’t do my job while pupils are talking/shouting/throwing things/playing football. If I can’t ask these children to leave I can’t teach so I won’t.

I absolutely support this initiative.

When research has been done the vast majority of young people facing suspension and exclusions have SEND and are not being properly supported in school.

Proper support for these children would benefit all children in every class. Just as a few examples, speech therapy services have been decimated in the last few years, it’s very hard for schools to get an Ed Pysch in to advise on strategies.

Teachers are given next to no training on SEND in their training courses then expected to manage challenging young people with no support.

To be able to help these students we need an overhaul of the education system.

we need better identification of problems early on and correct interventions and support for the individual and their family.

We need more specialist schools and easier access to them.

We need more none academic pathways for young people to follow.

I could carry on but basically we need to stop trying to force square pegs into a round hole.

They do need support and an education but I can’t think that leaving these children in a classroom of 30 with one teacher is going to be the answer.

Y y @Sirzy

• “97% of those excluded at primary school had a special educational need (SEND)”

business.itn.co.uk/rising-primary-school-exclusions-exploring-solutions/

My parents didn’t by me any nee clothes or uniform between the age of 12 and 16. My dad was a violent alcoholic who drank all wages we desperately needed for food, clothes and other essentials.

I often went to school after the police had been called and I didn’t get to bed until after midnight. Or I was woken by violent rows at 4am. If I had gone to school now I would have been punished for being a few minutes late, forgetting a tie or not having the right uniform (which my parents didn’t replace when I outgrew or it broke so I had to cobble uniform together).

I wasn’t disruptive. I was bullied because I was obviously poor. Otherwise I was shy and hardworking.

@ThatsGoingToHurt I’m so sorry you went through this.

I think you are absolutely right and I feel the same for different reasons. I was always forgetting things as a teen have two dc dx with ADHD and no doubt have it myself. My school dealt with me with compassion and kindness and now it might be very different.

I actually agree with this “Schools should try to meet the needs of all students wherever possible. That is a completely different question to whether children should be allowed to behave as they please at school.

But any school that follows Bennets guidelines and doesn't allow the children to behave as they please is going to have funding withdrawn?

@WhereIsBebèsChambre can you link to where in the announcement it says children should be allowed to behave as they please? Not seeing that

This is an interesting read I think:

”“I found no evidence that isolation booths improve behaviour; in fact, the findings suggest they make it worse and thereby compound learning, mental health and physical health needs.”

suitable-education.uk/impacts-of-isolation/#:~:text=Martin%2DDenham%20writes%3A%20“I,health%20and%20physical%20health%20needs.”

Schools have already recognised this - you may have noticed lots advertising for "Student Support" staff recently. This is exactly what it's for.

In my experience there's a big middle ground between disruptive children being in the classroom and being sent home suspended - schools do a huge amount to support children in school but away from the classroom when necessary.

Poor behaviour is the bane of every teacher’s life. It doesn’t have to be physically attacking you, either. I once had a pupil who crawled round on the floor every single time you turned your back because he thought it was funny. Another kept a phone in his pocket with a noise recorded on it. All he had to do was shift his body weight and it made it play it. He was also clever enough to have made it sound like a faulty light or something. Being unable to actually see the phone, though, it couldn’t be confiscated from him. Teachers gave virtually no power in the classroom when it comes to bad behaviour so warnings and removal are literally the only option. That’s without mentioning the swearing, work refusal, swinging from rafters etc And people wonder why teachers leave or go to private or grammar - the worst I ever had to put up with in these was he not done or a wonky tie and even the threat of a ‘bad note’ in the diary was enough to turn those children to jelly

@intrepidgiraffe all schools do? Sadly I think many schools aren’t able to, which is why there are so many SEND children being excluded.

That’s very true but the article sounds like isolation is also to be done away with

Schools are expected to be all things for all aspects of a child's needs

Parental education, better diagnosis of SENs before school starts and more schools better equipped for SENs are all needed

Some children just cannot learn effectively in a traditional classroom environment. They need close support and additional learning materials (text to speech software, for example) or materials modified to better suit their needs.

In streamed classes, you might already find an entire class of SEN students. Additional support in the form of TAs is the best solution, I think, as well as separate classrooms for students who need a quieter space to help them focus better.

IME they usually do behave better but only in the short term - a week or so, normally.

They need to fix the issues in schools that lead to suspensions before they remove this tool. In most cases it is not intended to be punative, it just gives everyone - other pupils, staff and the pupil involved - a break. They need to increase the specialist support services such as speech and language, OT, Educational Psychologist, Cahms, Social Services input etc. Increasing Teachers and TA's is fine but often doesn't get to the route of the issues, What is needed is people would can help deal with parenting issues, trauma, medical issues, ND support and similar.

What schools need is a lot more staff (and therefore a lot more money)

The promised 6500 nee teachers averages at half a new teacher per school. Not nearly enough.

Disruptive students shouldn't be suspended, or given "internal suspension" in isolation rooms. Even tne disruptive child has a right to the full year of education. It's hypocritical to be fining parents for not sending children in for a week due to the evidence that every week of school missed reduces a child's long term life chances, and yet also removing the access to education for the most vulnerable for weeks at a time.

What the child needs is initially some 1:1 attention to identify and address any immediate issues, then a more persomalised programme of teaching and study in small groups, or in the larger class with 1:1 additional attention until the child is able to participate in the class normally (if that ever becomes possible)

Schools cannot do anything like this as they don't have the staff.

I had some training once from Bennett. It was actually rather good and the training didn't reflect how he is portrayed in the article. It wasn't about being strict at all, more about the importance of regular routines and catching kids being good if I remember correctly.
However the Dix dude also mentioned is famously the cause of much worse behaviour in secondary schools that take his restorative approach.

Yet again it all boils down to money. Get an lsa in every single class in every single school and pay them fairly and you would see an amazing improvement in behaviour. Get rid of such full specifications for GCSE subjects. Cut the content and focus more on the employability skills you can gain from that subject. Fund sen bases with specialist staff where students can have a quieter and calmer learning experience with scope for more personalised adjustments.

I’m all for setting, I could teach a full class of children with SEND successfully if I was teaching a lesson tailored to them and not trying to force them to fit with the high fliers. You can’t teach three or four different lessons at the same time which is what is actually needed for success.
Also schooling needs to prepare people for the real world.
”yes I robbed the bank but it’s because I have ADHD” isn’t suddenly going to become a legal defence is it? So consequences and rules have to stay.