Labour advised to finish closing all grammars

[twistyizzy]

Advice currently being given to Labour by same group that support VAT on private schools.

I went to a comprehensive, then to Oxbridge, then into a highly competitive career. A member of the Cabinet went to my school (hurrah!). Reading the posts declaring that the end of grammars will mean some sort of hellscape of failed intelligence is very bizarre when that already is the education system in most of the UK.

Many schools are currently struggling to meet needs but that’s not because of the comprehensive approach. It’s because a lot of other things need sorting out.

Thank you - promise not to reveal your whereabouts but I am genuinely interested!

Oh, and I was brought up with the family tale of Why Grammars Are Bad. A family member failed the 11+ pre-war, and his parents became the ahead-of-their-time stretched middle who managed to pay school fees for two years so he could take a second exam at 13 which he then passed. He ended up at Oxford and Harvard, none of which would have happened if he’d been sent to the secondary modern. And his parents would not have done that for sisters, because girls don’t need educating.

Advice from some corner. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Ben Habib would advice leaving migrants to drown. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Exactly! You'd think all these grammar-educated types would be capable of a bit more critical thinking!!

I can't get worked up about this. We don't have grammars around here, so my DDs both are/went to the local comp. I also went to the local comp (in a different area, no grammar there either). I probably went to one of the worst schools in the country (pit village during the miner's trike, 1980s - regular riots, constant fights & disruption) and I'm now a very successful business data analyst, with a good Russell group degree & Ph.D. Older DD currently at uni studying maths, and younger DD on track to get all 8s & 9s in GCSEs. My younger DD adores her school, the teachers, her friends, throws herself into all the extra-curricular stuff on offer (key part in school play, shows, orchestra etc). I honestly can't work out how going to a grammar school would have improved either mine or my DDs life chances?

Of people I know who send their children to grammars/private, it distinctly comes across as a status thing (whatever they actually say). "Oh my DD is at the grammar/private school" - which translates to "My DD is better than yours", to which, obviously, I just smile politely because I know that isn't true.🙂

Yes we feel the same way now. Our DC will be just fine and see through their grammar education.

Didn’t Keir Starmer achieve what he did thanks not only to his own talent but also to a grammar school, which for him was also paid for by a direct grant after it became private?

I'm in a grammar area. In my town, it hasn't changed the house prices. Entry is by ability and then ordered by distance from the school and the distance includes local villages and the whole range of housing ( private, LA, HA).

The local grammar would lose its grammar status and would continue to serve the local community. Different children without selection, but the same number if children taking the places.

Not a huge difference and so much less stress for families if the system was removed.

Hope you got it.

It's been quite an eye opener seeing how bad rates for FSM at grammars are across the country. I assumed where we lived was normal!! When I looked it up apparently not.

Some academies in Kent have a grammar stream. Speaking to parents they seem ok with it whether their children are in the stream or not.

About 5% of secondary pupils attend a grammar school. You'd think from the amount of attention they get on MN, it would be far higher.

No yours is definitely not the norm! Thank you for explaining as I was

This is just top set rebranded, and the key thing is kids would be able to transfer in or out.

You assume that he couldn't have acheived from the top set of a good comprehensive if that was the system he had been born into?

A welcome move. I went to grammar and I hated it with a passion, I thrived despite it not because of it.

similar stories for lots of people I’ve known.

there’s no need for them

Many ‘comprehensive’ academies are using banding assessment tests to take a selection of pupils from different academic abilities. If you live very near to the schools in question, but unfortunately fall in to the most common middling academic ability band, you’re not getting in. Whereas, someone from five miles away, that falls in to the less common, top academic ability band, will get in. They are, absolutely, selecting their intake on academic ability. They even call the top band the ‘Grammar Stream’. They’re not hiding it, they’re just using different words to describe it and getting away with it.

The whole thing needs overhauling. Maybe the French system would be better - no selection at 11 but "middle school" where everyone follows the basic curriculum followed by options for technical school or general school from 15 or so allowing kids to specialise according to skills and ability? Other countries don't have grammar schools. Presumably their bright children survive?

On both your points that is the case. The independent schools in Kent have top, middle and bottom set.

Is this the case in comprehensive schools?

Are we going to have daily posts of things that Labour have not said they are doing, to discuss?

If so, can I suggest when the list is getting short.
Labour plan to tax air.

@TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers
"Many ‘comprehensive’ academies are using banding assessment tests to take a selection of pupils from different academic abilities."
Link please
as that is contrary to the admissions code in many counties

It depends what comprehensive would have been available for him at that time but I have no doubt he would have done relatively well wherever he went.

I do not think though that all comprehensives have (or had in this case) the same facilities, class sizes, expectations, extra curricular provision, and peer competition as academic private schools, or that these do not make a difference.

Just like during the campaign!

Labour haven't ruled out the window tax. Labour haven't ruled out taxing walking on the beach. Labour haven't ruled out taxing breathing.

I've worked in a grammar school. The tutored students often struggled and many left. The children from deprived backgrounds were plentiful and thrived because they were in an environment that suited their abilities and encouraged them to succeed.

Germany has grammar schools, and Italy still has some.