Labour advised to finish closing all grammars

[twistyizzy]

Advice currently being given to Labour by same group that support VAT on private schools.

Some parents don't have a choice. I live in Kent which is fully selective so it's a grammar or a secondary modern which is no longer called a secondary modern. There are no comprehensives.

Without naming the school that is hard for anyone to verify. That number is completely out of line with the national situation around FSM/grammars so sounds highly surprising (by which I mean unlikely).

I'm not sure education matters any more.

It matters far more if your parents are wealthy and can find you the connections for that internship/first job and support you financially whilst you do that unpaid internship.

Perhaps we should just let our young children play for their childhood and then just train them direct into roles during their adolescence. It might be kinder than telling them to work hard all their education for them to leave uni, grasping their 1st and be told 'well there's care work available'

That is why I said 'parents who buy into it' as I appreciate parents have no choice if they live in one of the grammar areas.

@listsandbudgets compare the FSM rate to the nearest Comp/Secondary Modern. That will give a better picture than the national rate.

@RunSlowTalkFast There most certainly are comprehensives in Kent.

THe Kent test is not compulsory and many children do not take it.

As an example, I compared a Comprehensive and Grammar that are actually next door to each other.
Comp FSM: 12.9%
Grammar FSM: 2.9%

Someone giving an opinion does not instantly make it policy.

That grammar FSM % is much more in line with norms.

The VAT policy on private schools raises money. The government needs money, particularly for state education.

Making grammars comprehensive wouldn't raise money, would cost money, would be an absolute ballache and take a lot of time to work through while there are many, many, many other issues that need addressing in education first, not least the horrible black hole of SEN provision.

So Labour will not be doing this.

What are the comps on Kent? Whete I live 25-30% seem to get into grammars so the other schools are de facto secondary moderns even if they don't call themselves that.

Reeves (now Chancellor) has already said she wants to reduce the number of pupils at selective schools, so it wouldn’t surprise me.

Kier went to a Grammar (which became private during his time there). Surely he doesn't agree with this?

wouldn't raise money, would cost money, would be an absolute ballache and take a lot of time to work through

A lot like the VAT policy then

The VAT policy might actually end up costing the taxpayer money. Even the IFS say their estimates show it would raise a tiny amount and won’t make a real difference to public services. The policy has nothing to do with raising money and everything to do with “equality”. The Chancellor and Deputy PM have already expressed their dislike of the grammar system. Reeves has said she wants fewer children in selective education.

Map here showing the different types of school. https://www.kelsi.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/27463/Kent-Secondary-Schools-by-District_A3.pdf

Comprehensives I know - Hugh Christie in Tonbridge
The Catholic ones - St Gregory's in Twells

The secondary modern ones used to be Hillview/Hayesbrook

It may have changed but if you failed the test you had the choice of secondary moderns. If you didn't take the test at all you went to the comprehensives

Seems like a great idea. Level the playing field. The results of a child from a grammar school are going to be unfairly higher than a child who went to a comprehensive.

if a Grammar school is an academy, could they remain selective by creating their own admissions criteria which includes a test?

The freedoms academies have can presumably be amended too, if necessary.

Regardless of what it costs in the long-run, estimates certainly vary, they definitely intended it to raise money and have said what that money would be spent on.

I imagine that all of them are rather busy with fixing the shit the country is in rather than 'nice to have' education policies right now. The capacity isn't there.

They don’t take it unless they are likely to pass it so obviously many won’t take it.
The remaining schools are clearly equivalent to secondary moderns not comprehensives.

There’s no secondary moderns/comp difference anymore. You aren’t deemed selective, you can apply for any other school. Some have supplements for religion etc, but otherwise they just get listed on your application form

Ah brilliant so all our kids can have the lowest common dominator ..... it's just not going to help us compete globally....

I doubt if he had much say in the matter when he was 10 or 11. Perhaps the fact that his parents gave him a privileged education is why he wants everyone to be given the same opportunity as he had. Most counties don't have selective state schools and you don't see us all clamouring to move to those which do.

What do you think happens in the many, many areas where there are no grammars? A bunch of thickos?

No, because the current admissions code prohibits "any new selection by ability". If a school ceased to be a grammar, or grammars were abolished, any new admissions criteria cannot be used to select by ability.