Labour advised to finish closing all grammars

[twistyizzy]

Advice currently being given to Labour by same group that support VAT on private schools.

Not really, neither of his best friends at school had tutors either. Although their mums are teachers so they are probably more familiar with the curriculum than I am. I haven’t helped him with homework apart from
spellings and listening to him read when he was tiny. Completely the opposite to my younger child which is why they are in different schools.

@Dibblydoodahdah I don't think you understand the logistics of parts of the country. It would cause even greater inequality of opportunity in a county such as Cornwall or the Isle of Wight. Selection within a state system is wrong at age 11. We should have good schools available to all regardless of where they live, rather than giving a perceived elite education to a tiny minority.

It is hard to believe based on my knowledge, I could be wrong.

There is a certain demographic of parents that are very pushy, but not all the parents are like that. My DC’s school friends parents are similar to us. Supportive but absolutely wouldn’t be getting a tutor unless they were struggling with something.

Not about tutor at school. Rarely someone could pass the exam without any assistance. It usually takes more than just being a genius to succeed. Many of the students I know, regardless of their demographic, are clever and hardworking, yet still required substantial preparation.

Where did I ever say that I didn’t want good schools available to all? Super selective grammars don’t impact that. Level up, not down. And it could be done even in the Highlands of Scotland. Although it would probably need to be a state boarding option.

Literally n Wales we don’t have Gammars. We don’t have many private schools (those that go are usually kids of English people). It is fine. The hand wringing that goes on about this is ridiculous.

You keep your schools like they are then but don’t interfere with areas that do it differently.

You certainly don't give the impression of having much experience. And I'm sure your own experience must have been at least a few years ago!

Are you really suggesting that in areas that don't have grammar schools you don't get equally academic and intelligent students? Do you really think that being in a grammar school area means you have brighter children than a non grammar school area?

You are funny.

@Dibblydoodahdah 1150 students a year roughly get all 9s at GCSE. We had several at our school. I expect you will tell us everyone did at your school 🤣

I have plenty of experience thank you. Maybe you’re not as experienced as you think you are.

Has the position improved in the last ten years?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/too-many-bright-children-let-down-in-the-state-system

Do you think being so patronising supports your argument? Of course it isn’t 100% of pupils getting all 9’s. No school achieves that. It’s a top ten state school performance wise. There are lots of 9’s including in year 9 when the pupils take their first GCSE.

Where did I say that? Tell me the exact words I used. You are making things up.

I don't need to make things up.

But those at a super selective grammar may not be challenged by the top set in your school. Is your top set working beyond GCSE level in year 9?
Why would students at a super selective grammar school be working at a higher level than the top students at a comprehensive?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323966139_Differences_in_exam_performance_between_pupils_attending_selective_and_non-selective_schools_mirror_the_genetic_differences_between_them

Because at a super selective you have pupils who would be top of the top sets in a comp. Many of the top set pupils at a comp wouldn’t get in. I wouldn’t have got in despite being a top set pupil and neither would my youngest DC despite getting the greater depth level in his year 6 SATs. And I have covered that point above, more than once.
Because they are all so bright, it means that they can go at a very quick pace.

"they are all so bright"

I don’t think, in general, they are brighter than many top students in comprehensive schools. However, it does provide faster-paced learning for the sake of progressing ahead

The difference is that instead of having 30 top of the top set pupils spread across 20 comps, you have them all one class in a super-selective. Remember, that’s what I am talking about here. Based on his SAT results my youngest would have most likely got into a grammar in a full grammar area but not a super selective like his brother. Not all grammars are the same.

I think the super selectives have a far greater depth of very bright DC. It’s obvious they can teach at a greater pace for many. Comps find this difficult as the critical mass is far smaller. That is also obvious. We do have special schools for dc who have sen and I do think some very bright dc have needs that are better served in a grammar. There’s not the same numbers of very bright dc in all areas of the country. All sorts of reasons for this but if I was a new government facing all the issues they are, punishing parents with huge changes in some areas wouldn’t be a priority.

I understand their differences, but I don’t believe they add value for students in superselective grammar schools. The top of top students are often self perceived as such by their parents. For example, many students with actually similar or higher natural abilities at that stage did not sign up or prepare for the exam, for various reasons.

What do you mean by “add value”? As I have said above, education is not all about the results. I didn’t need to self-perceive. My DC’s CAT scores told me that he was top 1%. He got fulls marks in the year 6 SATs. You have basically accused me of lying on this thread because my DC doesn’t fit in with your preconceived ideas of a typical super selective grammar pupil. What’s your actual experience in the education sector?

I didn’t accuse you of lying I believe your DS is special. I just don’t think there are many like him in superselective schools as you describe, majority of them required tutoring efforts to get in. Many students in the top 1% of CAT scores or with full marks on SATs go to comprehensive schools. The local four-form entry primary school I know of had five students with full marks last year, and four of them went to comprehensive schools. Also, I would suggest that KS2 and CAT scores are positively correlated with advanced tutoring.

My DC had no tutoring for SATs nor any practice whatsoever. In fact, he didn’t go to school for weeks during year 6 due to lockdown. They tested his class at the end of year 6 using the previous year’s papers and he got full marks. No prep for CAT either. Just something that his school did to assess their students. I didn’t actually know what getting 141 meant for a long time! Maybe he is exceptional but there are many other DC like him in the country and they deserve an education that meets their needs, just like all children do.

In 2023, approximately 13,000 pupils achieved full marks in their KS2 SATs. How many places are available in superselective schools? Many of the parents think they will be great in local comprehensive schools.