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STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

1001 replies

zzooey · 05/04/2008 19:37

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

OP posts:
peanutbear · 30/04/2008 10:19

I have been made so cross I have to post!!!! I have never until mumsnet heard of Steiner School, but after a thread earlier this month I have rad these threads with growing disdain

then I read PeteK's post about Negro brains and I am so angry that I could burst -if this shite is being taught openly in school in England why is this not an incitement of racism, by propagating this bollocks in the minds of children, what are we letting them teach them.
do they not have OFSTED inspectors or have to follow any rules at all in education.
If they don't we should make these schools have to be inspected like any other schools and shut them down

I am really over whelmed that people know this goes on and nobody in high enough authority puts a stop to it

right rant over please ignore it makes no coherent sense but made me feel better

northernrefugee39 · 30/04/2008 11:31

peanutbear
Thanks for the rant.
How about this one?
"If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will become increasingly dense...Blond hair actually bestows intelligence. In the case of fair people, less nourishment is driven into the eyes and hair; it remains instead in the brain and endows it with intelligence. Brown- and dark-haired people drive the substances into their eyes and hair that the fair people retain in their brains."

In fact, Steiner schools don't actually teach this stuff, but it is rooted in the anthroposphy which the schools are based in.
They get away with it by saying they don't "teach" this to the children
What is intersting is that the books on the reading list for the teachers have many of these ideas in them.
Here for instance
""For peoples and races are but steps leading to pure humanity. A race or a
nation stands so much the higher, the more perfectly its members express the
pure, ideal human type, the further they have worked their way from the
physical and perishable to the supersensible and imperishable. The evolution
of man through the incarnations in ever higher national and racial forms is
thus a process of liberation. Man must finally appear in harmonious
perfection." Rudolf Steiner, Knowledge of Higher Worlds, 207

So the teachers are told to read these books as part of their traing, but then they say, we don't teach this to the children.
The fact is that these ideas permeate the class room.
it's inevitable.
#And yes, hoiw can the government be giving hereford Steiner school academy status, and millions of state money, when their belief system/pseudo religion/cult whatever you want to call it, is so dubiously questionable?

Lets hope the press, or someone picks up on this soon.

Janni · 30/04/2008 16:54

Diana - it's pink and fluffy. 'Netmums' is the one we look down on for that.

Peanut - those things are not openly taught, which is why those of us who've had children at Steiner Schools are so outraged to find out about them. It's very subtle - the teachers would never openly admit to it.

isenhart7 · 30/04/2008 21:10

"I explained that if I were married to a woman who insisted I squat to pee - lest a stray molecule of my urine land on her toothbrush - I would find a use for her toothbrush cleaning urine spatterings off the toilet seat. Well, needless to say - I got a thread that had been going for 5 years locked up in about two days."

Wow, good for you standing up for yourself like that! Would you actually do this to a woman you were married to or were you just talkin' out of your hindbrain?

Janni · 30/04/2008 21:31

I'm with Pete on that one (tho' I'd kick his ass if he did use his woman's toothbrush to clean the loo, whatever the provocation ). Men should NOT sit down to pee and women should NOT expect them to do so. Talk about emasculation.

An interesting (?) first post on this thread, isenhart.

PeteK · 01/05/2008 00:20

"Wow, good for you standing up for yourself like that! Would you actually do this to a woman you were married to or were you just talkin' out of your hindbrain?"

Apparently, some people don't know the difference between having fun pulling people's leg and misogynism. Anthroposophists must lack the humor gene...

DianaW · 01/05/2008 00:26

Isenhart is an anthroposophist and long-time Waldorf supporter, in fact I think she works for a Waldorf organization. You'll likely notice she is not interested in the "Is anyone willing to identify themselves as an anthroposophist?" thread, nor likely to be forthcoming about her views or experience in Steiner institutions in any way other than sarcastic and childish. SOrry to be pessimistic there, but I once had a rather bizarre conversation with her running in circles trying to define "anthroposophist." (The answer to "Are you an anthroposophist" is often "Depends on who's asking.")

DianaW · 01/05/2008 02:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

DianaW · 01/05/2008 02:27

"Hey Diana, we're so glad you're on mumsnet!"

Thank you

Sorry Pete, for putting words in your mouth - carried away . . .

Yeah, the Bloomsbury group lives with Linda Cl . . . right I'm sure. The funny thing about her is that she has a slightly elevated opinion of herself in relation to other Mothering posters, and I'm always wondering if anyone is picking up on it.

She's not the only one telling this fable of these wonderful Steiner students who are sort of "Renaissance men" (and women) . . . . they all play instruments and stay up late discussing philosophy etc. I thought your point was very well taken, Northern - I suspect what she is describing is much like what happens at my house, too (and might be somewhat of a surprise coming from 15 year old boys, but it's true) - we might just a wee bit of "overblown" going on. It isn't a Steiner thing. The creative ones in Steiner turn out creative in spite of Steiner - they have to break away from the constraining (and slightly nauseating) Steiner aesthetic first - that pale pastel swirly world, land of harp and lyre music and Romantic poets.

Bloomsbury group my eye... She just knows nobody there will challenge that guff.

DianaW · 01/05/2008 03:04

Splodge painting as Davy calls it
Maybe I'll go try to find some links to give a taste of anthroposophical art.

Oh well, I gotta try to get on here earlier in the evening when someone else is awake
Hi Pete

DianaW · 01/05/2008 03:27

anthroposophical art

more anthroposophical art

still more anthroposophical art

and more anthroposophical art

Here is anthroposophy's world headquarters, if anyone's interested -
Goetheanum

Anyone wanna tell me that's not freaky?

Finally . . .

This popped up in my googling for anthroposophical art and I'm not sure if the guy is full-on scientologist or partly and anthroposophist or both or just a random nut, but this page sure is spooky:

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.goetheanum.org/typo3temp/pics/1bcffbe674.jpg&imgrefurl=ht tp://skunks.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/the-pagan-rudolf-steiner/&h=241&w=400&sz=21&hl=en&start=45&um=1 &tbnid=POhHbbhP4K0iZM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Danthroposophical%2Bpainting%26start%3D36% 26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

2sugars · 01/05/2008 06:04

Was the bee banned then?

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 07:42

2sugars It looks like it.
I get the feeling he's still watching us though.
I posted something on The Green Parent the other day froma friend's computer, about Montessori, tonsilitis, and head lice.... terribly contraversial; in passing, I mentioned to someone that is they were thinking of Steiner school, they would do well to read up on it and look at the old thread (they closed, but it's still up)
Within a day I was banned.
The Green parent is the forum which was threatened with a law suit by "someone".

This happenes all over the place and it's preventing free speech imo.

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 07:58

Isenheart, are you here from the mothering thread? Hi.
Your input on anthroposophy would be really welcome, that's the header of this thread.
The one on mothering with the same question was treated with such a viloent reaction , and was closed because it violated rules.
Anyone would think it was asking someone to own up to being something frightful ghastly and horrendous

Strangely, someone over there said on one thread that she was an anthroposophist, so it can't be that bad can it?

Diana, you said
"the Bloomsbury group lives with Linda Cl"
Do you think she knows much about the Bloomsbury Group?
(My great Aunt knew them , my cousin is married to Vita Sackville-West's grand daughter)
Their reputation as diletantes, who set themselves up as an elite, who were disparaging to anyone they considered beneath them,and who spent self indulgent hours intraspecting and sleeping with each other in various combinations...interspersed with producing some second rate "craft"
but the difference between them and Steiner waldorf being, Vanessa Bell, Duncan Grant, Dora Carrington, Mark Gertler, et al could actually paint
Anything less like a bunch of Steiner students I can't imagine.

Those bloody watery paintings! Why do people say how beautiful they are? They are so ghastly, so kitch revolting eugh.

PeteK · 01/05/2008 15:24

"Those bloody watery paintings! Why do people say how beautiful they are? They are so ghastly, so kitch revolting eugh."

Now, now, Northern. Art is subjective. At least Anthroposophists have developed an art form that is... well... pretty unique. I know I could look at one of those in a museum, for example, and automatically conclude that it was painted by an Anthroposophist. How many other modern religions have their own art form/medium? You have to look back to tribal/ancient/isolated civilizations to find this sort of thing expressed in art in so uniform a way among a religious group. It's like an Easter Island mentality or something.

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 15:45

Nah Pete,as a tutor of mine used to say
"There are two sorts of art, good art and bad art"
I know which catagory anthroposphical falls into...

Pete, I asked this question to someone else, Steiner on freedom.
Apparently, Steiner translated the word "freedom" as "spiritual activity"

What?

So all those books people fall for about Steiner education about Education towards freedom etc, take on a rather different hue...

isenhart7 · 01/05/2008 18:28

"Apparently, some people don't know the difference between having fun pulling people's leg and misogynism. Anthroposophists must lack the humor gene..."

I assume then that starting a pissing match with the captive audience at mothering is your idea of higher brain functioning.

So once again, Pete, for the sake of argument, let's say that you are correct, that you don't have to be an anthroposophist to be dead serious but it does help because anthropsophists "lack the humor gene". Would that mean that anthroposophists are genetically superior or genetically inferior and what is the determining factor, besides, of course, how funny you think you are?

PeteK · 01/05/2008 18:33

Steiner did a lot of that (or his translators did). The word "individual" for example, meant something different to Steiner than it does to "normal" people. An "individual" to Steiner was an individual consciousness, not an individual in human form. An "individual" to Steiner, may have many incarnations. Steiner was an "individual" who incarnated as (depending on who you ask) Aristotle, some saints, Steiner and then me .

When we see some of the quotes from racial apologists who quote Steiner as saying something along the lines of "individuals" are equal regardless of race - he means this in a way that says (and some Anthroposophists will even use this term) "individuals" "transend" their race. The "individual" is a spiritual delineation - not a physical one.

Steiner didn't give a hoot about individuals as we use the term. Indeed, he felt individuals, races, nations of people - had to come and go - die out if necessary to make some spiritual point. He felt some "individuals" were incarnated into bodies of savages or miscreants or, God forbid, people who are physically challenged for any reason... while other physical bodies (sometimes children) were inhabited by demons. The "individuals" (spirits) were all equal... but the physical human forms they incarnated into were certainly not equal to Steiner.

barking · 01/05/2008 18:35

CHIPS

barking · 01/05/2008 18:41

Oh sorry Pete wasn't saying 'chips' to you - I was saying it to the felted bag of misery before you.

So Isenhart7, give us your best joke then

barking · 01/05/2008 18:41

knock knock

PeteK · 01/05/2008 18:42

"I assume then that starting a pissing match with the captive audience at mothering is your idea of higher brain functioning."

I haven't a clue what you're talking about. I've only posted a couple of times in the last couple of weeks at Mothering.com. Before that - nothing for more than a year. Are you confusing me with someone else?

"So once again, Pete, for the sake of argument, let's say that you are correct, that you don't have to be an anthroposophist to be dead serious but it does help because anthropsophists "lack the humor gene". Would that mean that anthroposophists are genetically superior or genetically inferior and what is the determining factor, besides, of course, how funny you think you are?"

Ah, spoken like a TRUE ANTHROPOSOPHIST!!! How about the option that they might be genetically different? Why does EVERYTHING have to be superior or inferior? Does EVERYTHING have to fall into a hierarchy? Val, you have DEMONSTRATED for us here how Anthroposophists automatically think in these terms. THANK YOU!!! I couldn't have asked for a better example of the Anthroposophical thinking process. I'm lovin' it!!!

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 19:36

OMG mothering comes to mumsnet.

" How about the option that they might be genetically different? "

It's not in an anthroposphist's thought pattern to even consider that.

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 19:38

Spoken by an anthropposophist
""the idea that children exist as angels before they are born doesn't strike me as religious"

northernrefugee39 · 01/05/2008 19:43

Barking rainbow felted bag surely....

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