STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

"Pete - because if he's been banned from Mumsnet he'll be able to read what we're writing but won't be allowed to post in return."

Yes, I know. My point was that he'll just sign up under a different name. He HAS been known to do that you know...

(I hadn't realised that as late as 1981, he origional version was still published.)

Well, we always have the original German to refer to. Clearly, when we see these "sanitized" versions showing up, it's not like removing soot from the Sistine chapel ceiling, they (Anthroposophists) are actually CHANGING THE CONTENT in order to avoid criticism. Why not leave the content accurate and just take an official stance that you don't agree with Steiner's racism? The answer is simple. IN A CULT, THE GURU MUST BE INFALLIBLE. It's REALLY that simple. They HAVE to make Steiner out to be great - even if they have to re-write his own words.

I totally agree. Now they're whining, "What's wrong with sanitising it?" Hello? Honesty is what's wrong with it? To republish an old text with commentary on the racist passages would be one thing - and a very good thing - including perhaps statements from the Anthroposophical Society that today's anthroposophists don't believe this sort of thing - but it's quite another thing to republish it CHANGED without explaining what the changes were, or even noting anywhere in the revised edition that changes have been made. This is dishonest, cultish, sly, underhanded, I can't think of enough bad adjectives for it . . .

They don't understand the difference between dealing with something straightforwardly and pretending it never happened. Which is pretty much the mentality on Mothering.com also. The "Is anyone willing to call themselves an anthroposophist" thread has now been removed. Same old same old - the impulse to deny, alter the record, rewrite history, put on a nice face in public.

"This is dishonest, cultish, sly, underhanded, I can't think of enough bad adjectives for it "
Yup!
The lack of straightforwardness is so sleazy. they twist and avoid.
What gets me is it must be so exhausting to be on their guard the whole time!

Yes, the anthroposphist thread has been removed because it was "contentious".
An English poster has linked to here too, so they think the discussion is a put up job.

It clearly doesn't occur to them , that some honest answers, clear response to points or questions asked would be appropriate and make a "discussion".
(And would also answer the question at the start of the thread.)

And then the deliberate "not* reading or misundestanding of things, and reposting it. Lush used to do that, it must be a charateristic.
Or maybe they simply can't read blocks of text if it isn't on a peach chalk background in two inch high blue and red letters. Illustrated with wish wash.

But they fly into a hissy fit, if there's something posted which is the truth and they don't like it.

Is mothering run by a kabal of Steiner defenders then do you think?

I'm totally amazed I haven't been chucked off mothering actually.
I really hand it to them that they haven't!

I didn't know it was anthroposphical thing, mothering.

No Mothering.com isn't an Anthropsophical thing. They have let the Anthroposophists convince them that they are somehow aligned in their thinking - natural products etc. Things that Steiner/Anthros don't agree with in the MDC platform, extended breastfeeding, for example, they just don't talk about. So no, MDC is not Anthro run but the Waldorf areas are Anthro-controlled.

Now the other thread's gone, too, I see. LOL!! I looked at it right before leaving work, saw that there were about 7 pages I hadn't read, thought "I'll read this later," then on second thought decided I'd copy it, in case it disappeared . . . sure enough here we are 4 hours later- POOF thread vanishes. Removed because somebody was, um, upset about something I guess.

I'll post the copies somewhere - it's too long for mumsnet I think but maybe put snippets on critics. I only have the last few pages. They'll do, er, something to punish me I suppose but I can't guess what . . . . (I'm long since banned from that site, and they consider it an outrage to civilized society that I read the site on occasion.)

I find hilarious all the miserable sniveling from pampered neurotics that they're "on stage," that is, the discussion is being read by other people and even discussed. Some people there seem not to have figured out what the Internet is yet. Mothering is a web site with FIFTY THOUSAND registered users, and moreover OPEN TO THE PUBLIC to read even without registering. Yes, princesses, you are all "on stage," every time you post. As Bluetrain patiently suggested, if you don't want people to read it, don't post! :O :O

Are they, um... closed for maintenance again? They have to close the entire site for maintenance EVERY DAY? Wonder what will be missing next?

Are they, um... closed for maintenance again? They have to close the entire site for maintenance EVERY DAY? Wonder what will be missing next?

Pete, it's just you and me, these gals are all asleep. I saw on one of those "about the Steiner thread" threads that Barking referred me to (extremely funny reading, btw, if you get bored) that they think we're strange because we post in the middle of the night . (We're in the US . . . it's not the middle of the night here.)

They also find us strange for doing a lot of quoting, apparently. I think this is not really that kind of a site, normally, so perhaps we should rein ourselves in.

You should really read those if you get a chance, there's some very funny people here. There are actual random Steiner-related experiences in them, too, many of which are also very funny reading.

May we just say again how refreshing we find this place - hope you don't mind if I speak for you too Pete but I suspect you share these sentiments - kind of like post-Waldorf, it is good for the mental health to find other people who are fed up with the smugness, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, pretention, backstabbing, pettiness, passive-aggressiveness, holier-than thou-ness, and all-round two-faced bitchiness at a place like Mothering. It's like PMS every day of the month over there (combined in a few cases with hot flashes?)

We know you're reading this too, Mothering Waldorfers - come on over! It's much "freer" here, in every sense of the word, Steinerian or otherwise. There is life post-Mothering.com!! And feel free to quote me! goodness am I on stage?

Please do not bring any of the Mothering.com(mune) people over here. It was sites like those that made me give up on all U. S. parenting sites altogether.

A current fad in my office is "No Whining" signs - several people have posted them on office or cubicle entrances . . . Mothering.com needs to add "No Whining" to the "user agreement" No whining that you're being quoted elsewhere, as it's a public web site. No whining that someone else isn't being "supportive" because he or she has a different opinion than you. No whining about "adversarial" posters. No whining that people who think differently from you have an "agenda" and thus should be run out of town on a rail. No whining that your way of life is under threat because not everyone believes that vaccination (or television, or junk food; fill in the blank) is a government conspiracy to harm your family. No whining period, and while we're at it, no paranoia . . .

And no running to admins because somebody hurt your feelings or a thread turned snarky or somebody used a naughty word or a challenge was raised to one of your own personal heart felt beliefs. It's good to challenge heart felt beliefs - if, after a rousing debate, your beliefs are intact, they'll be stronger than ever, and if they're not still intact, well, learned something new, didn't you?!

A grown-up discussion instead, where we all know we'll all live to tell about it if somebody disagrees with us or tells us off or even tells us where to get off. How about it, any refugees from Mothering want to join us?

Oh, whoops, sorry, dooneygirl.
It's highly unlikely any of them would come. A few might read this but they'll slink away. What was the phrase I heard someone use here awhile back - there was an English phrase for this - pink puffy mums or something like that? Mothering is pink puffy mums.

Are other US parenting sites like that? I thought it was mainly because they're ultra-crunchy - it's a sort of sickness that comes from a stifling extreme of political correctness. Perhaps it truly is more prevalent in US.

I found Mumsnet almost 4 years ago, and haven't been back to U. S. ones since. Every parenting site I found had too many happy banners, tickers, or avitars, or people were wayyy to sensitive and PC, or way too sensitive and hippy-dippy at Mothering.com. There are a few of us here on the living in the U. S. thread who are Americans living in America, and one of them and I had a discussion about Mothering, and I realized it wasn't just me.

"May we just say again how refreshing we find this place - hope you don't mind if I speak for you too Pete but I suspect you share these sentiments - kind of like post-Waldorf, it is good for the mental health to find other people who are fed up with the smugness, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, pretention, backstabbing, pettiness, passive-aggressiveness, holier-than thou-ness, and all-round two-faced bitchiness at a place like Mothering."

Um... Diana, I think you're putting a lot in my mouth... but yes, I agree with this part: "May we just say again how refreshing we find this place" - which is the sentiment I believe you really intended to include me in. You know me... I reserve the right to produce my own list of what people are fed up with at Mothering.com.

The mothering thread closed well no surprises there then.
I suspect linda and deborah threw a major hissy fit about having AWE linked to their names, pointing out how that gave them what could be called a major incentive to be there protecing their guru.
Also, there is someone from UK who enjoys stirring things up by linking to mumsnetand winding up linda and the others. She's done it before, even though, SHOCK it breaks the rules! She watches mumsnet but is too scared to partcipate.
Interestingly she is was well informed about Steiner before she went, but had never read any Steiner
And she was extremely keen for the thread to continue, kept saying so. Maybe her doubts are setting in. Perhaps reading a bit of Steiner has got her going.
It's very boring over there tho, the moment a discussion becomes interesting or valid, they review it!

The funniest thread about mothering etc is
here

Sheikyerbouti's Haiku

"mothering dot com
is a big pile of horse turd
I'll stick to mumsnet"

mothering "joke", reviewed by Sheikyerbouti
and cocolepew
"It's the way she tells them"

A Joke

Esther lies in my arms, nursing.
She releases my nipple, laughs, points to my breast.
?Bal-looon!?
No, that?s not a balloon, that?s a mimi,? I scold, jokingly.
She looks at me conspiratorially.
?Apple,? she says, pointing and smiling.
?No, it?s a mimi!? I laugh.
She laughs sweetly,
milk running out her mouth,
takes a drink,
?Bal-looon!?

"A FUCKING MIMI?

Oh my cunting god"

Pete
" (which reminds me - please forgive me if what I said above was a little vulgar for this forum). "

You are on mumsnet now....(read that thread, nothing shocks mumsnetters)

Hey Diana, we're so glad you're on mumsnet!
And Dooneygirl

Some of the others were going to do a mass raid on mothering , with "almost" lewd names.

Pete, what about the benefits of women peeing standing up? Did they talk about that?
I think we should start a thread about it.
Diana at
"I find hilarious all the miserable sniveling from pampered neurotics that they're "on stage," that is, the discussion is being read by other people and even discussed."
It's very difficult to remain civil to these people I must say.

They're also so complacent.
One of them likened their Steiner educated family to , snurk, "living with the Bloomsbury Group"
Virginia Woolf, Dora Carrington et al are actually considered to be an eletist set of middle class dilatantes who all slept with each others brothers and wives. Plua ca change. But , unlike Steiner Waldorf, some of their artand literature was actually good.

You have to wonder why any sane organisation would need to employ a full-time apologist. It all sounds a little paranoid to me, and I have no interest in the movement.

duchesse
"sane? Are you joking?

Paranoid

God for you for having no interest in the Steiner movement
He makes fascinating reading if you can be bothered, makes the Scientologists seem positively rational and balanced.

They need full time apologists in the Steiner waldorf movement because there are so many of us polemicists, who argue them out of existance. They never manage to answere questions directly.

I meant of good for you, but god for you sounds ...fitting!