STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS #2

[zzooey]

The steiner waldorf thread ran to a halt because apparently a 1000 messages are a maximum. Let's continue here!!

PPH - I know, you're right

PrincessPeaHead:

"since there are only about 8 people contributing to this thread why don't you all just email each other your yada yada yadas"

Northern, DianaW, Zzooey, PeteK, Powerofyoy2004 and Easeonline already do that as part of a WC-crowd. That's not enough for them. They - and maybe especially Northern - want to spread the their anti-Waldorf gospel as loud, as much, as far and as wide as only possible.

As Mumsnet has so few rules in contrast to probably most other parenting forums with rules for things like civility, and the MN Towers likes "robust discussions" they have gathered here, which may be the only place where they can write what they write the way they do it.

Janni and possibly "barking" may be the only ones not on the list where the WC-crowd already discuss from dusk till dawn seven days a week.

If the WC-crowd was not here, there'd be little reason for me to be here either.

Happy thought.

Aren't your 3 web sites enough for you? Why do you have to be here spreading your gospel as well? After all, you have lots of space elsewhere. And you are, obviously, not here to participate in any discussion.

If it's so important to be where we are, why did you then say you couldn't discuss on the WC-list because people there make you feel sick?

I am convinced you know exactly why some threads on other fora have been closed down.

MN deserves applause for not falling for such tactics, and for not giving in to attempts made to stifle debates.

Have just read through the Melinda Messenger thread and nearly died laughing.

I hope some of you do go over to Mothering . . . I am very glad to see I am not the only one who finds the smugness the opposite of "empowering."

And now I know how it is that Bee today learned things like the difference between the American and British spelling of humour/humor and possibly even the meaning of the word "irony."

Where is that thread Diana? There are some forums on MDC I'm not even allowed to read. I work on government projects... I've got secret clearance... but I'm not allowed to read Mothering.com. Geez... they must talk about some very serious stuff. :0

"You keep talking about the WC crowd ... Northern has said she's not on it"

As usual , words fly don't they.

In TRUTH I haven't said anything.
I do discuss on the Waldorf Critics list.

But I haven't said whether I do or not before.
bee just assumes things, guesses things and is obsessed.

Thankyou Zooey, for telling Bee about his obsession with trying to intimidate me , on the other thread.

"and maybe especially Northern - want to spread the their anti-Waldorf gospel as loud,"

How do you know?

How do you know all this information bee?
Are you stalking me?

Are you trying to supressfree speech?

When you lose do you try different tactics, like putting what you think are real names?

What are your motives?

Hey bee, I don't have a "gospel", I have a story to tell about our time at Steiner school.

In case you've forgotten, we have three young children who had some traumatic experiences during their time at Steiner school.
We are a real family, with real experiences and real feelings.
We are not sitting at a computer all day promoting a cult.
So while you are hell bent on causing me harassment, stalking me, posting stuff about me, much of it odious supposition and assumption, remember we are a real family.

One can only assume from your behaviour that you don't like the truth being exposed.

The more you do it, the more it is so obvious, can't you see? Look at how you are received here, by people who haven't even heard of Steiner probably?

Cults, religions,pseudo belief systems, they have "gospels".
I'm an aetheist.

Northern, you write:

"One can only assume from your behaviour that you don't like the truth being exposed."

After I discussed with the WC for some years, I built the Waldorf Answers site in cooperation with an American Waldorf teacher, to address the main issues they raised and the myths they cultivated then and continue to do today.

I'm very sorry for your personal experiences at one Waldorf school. I had bad personal experiences too, as a pupil, in my case at public schools, for a number of years.

According to a report in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) in 2001, in general, the prevalence of bullying among U.S. youth is substantial, and one in three (29.9%) of 15,686 students in grades 6 through 10 in public and private schools throughout the United States in 1998 reported moderate or frequent involvement in bullying.

I don't know what the situation looks like in the U.K. but have a hunch it maybe is not that different from the U.S.

While your experiences are sad, many probably share similarly sad experiences at all sorts of schools in the UK, like I did in public schools in Sweden.

The 32 Ofsted inspection reports on Waldorf daycare centers and independent schools in the UK don't seem to support your description of the schools, as also not the DFES study published some years ago.

This is also the case with a BBC story and what The Independent has to say.

Just to point to that the issue is more complex than what you write here at MN.

Thebee - you are absolutely right that many students have all sorts of unfortunate experiences in state or other independent schools, not just Steiner Schools.

My principle objection to Steiner is, however, that when you enrol your small child into a school that looks homely, nurturing, in tune with nature etc etc you are only given a small part of the picture of what lies ahead. You are told NOTHING about anthroposophy. So you cannot make an informed choice and if you've already moved your child to a Steiner School because they were unhappy elsewhere you will be VERY loathe to move them again. So, you're in and you have to make the best of it.

remember this thread bee?

I think you'll find generally bullying isn't delt with as in state schools.
It's left to the kids to sort it out.
It's a past life issue.
It's karmic.

I've been in discussion with someone else who has had a very similar experince to this recentk at Steiner school.
She is taking it further. Repoting it to the authorities and social services I think.
She is also taking it to the press.

I heard too about someone who's child was extremely badly bullied at Steiner school. the school apparently paid the family to keep quiet.

Now, I don't say this might not happen in other places.
But it certainly happens at Steiner school with alarming repetivtiveness, the stories often strangely similar.

One of your friends on mothering, Deborah I think, said she knew bullying happened at Steiner I think.

Being banned from Wikipedia is like being banned from a crack den... only the withdrawls take longer.

You know what they say, Pete, out of the crack den and into the cougar's...

Here's some of the things that happened at the school ours were at ( some acounts from more than one child,)
Two male teachers dragging children from the room,
Teacher dragging child by neck
One boy holding a girl while the other one kicked her,
Two 12 yr old boys attacking a 10/11 yr old on her bike, pulling her to the ground and taking the bike
Pulling out chunks of hair
Throwing stones which leave bruises on chest
A whole class ostrasising one person,planned and organised by a ringleader,
notes about children's families physical attributes passed around in front of teacher
a vote in class about whether one single child should be invited to a party, in front of the child
glasses smashed in a punch
precious note book with stories and drawings taken and ripped up
constant name calling, sneering, kicking fighting

All part of the karmic process.

Have you ever noticed how few gentle kids there are at steiner schools?
And how the schools talk about how "confident" and "strong" the kids are?
It's because they're the only ones left

Everyone else has been bullied out of existence.

These things happened to kids at the school ours were at. The teachers ignored most of it. Or in one particular miserable boy's case, said he brought it on himself.

Remember the green Parenting discussion which was strangely "closed because "someone" threatened them? A woman came on there talking about bullying at Steiner school too, I've got it here, a copy of the whole thread.

Janni- absolutely right. That's my main objection too.
The deceipt.
I'm just writing an article at the moment about our experiences, and that must be the thig tha gets me most, apart from their belief in the racial hierarchy stuff.
and the superioty of their goal, in promoting anthrooshy so they can rule over all the lesser evil people and races when the spirit world comes.
Tossers

'we can actually start a sentence like that "Since long..." and it sounds entirely normal. "Depuis longtemps" - exactly. I'm trying to think if there's a similar expression in English? but I can't think of one. One that can begin a sentence?'

There are various possibilities but none that are as simple as "Since long," which I guess is why people speaking English as a second language often make this mistake - there ought to be a way to say it! We might say, "For a long time now, I have [whatever; worked at this company, lived in Sweden]." More likely would be to specify the time frame: "I have done so-and-so for 10 years." You can say "I have long lived in Sweden," or "I have long believed that . . ." but it's a little fussier sounding, and you can't say that at the beginning of a sentence ("Long have I . . .") without sounding dramatic or archaic, or at least, taking artistic license (Neil Young, about his car: "Long may you run . . .")

I hate knowing Diana is an editor... I meant "breach"... Grr...

I brought the Steiner/waldorf discussion over here, so that we don't clutter the Messenger thread.

This is what thebee wrote here:

"Nbg:

"Thebee, i really would stop now because you are giving yourself a very bad image."

If you refer to my comments to Zzooey, see former posting - we both live in the same city and discuss, well exchange points of view at times on the net.

She teases me in between and I tease her. No big deal, probably in this case to her either. But you never know. She's at me for every small detail in everything I write, arguing extensively against it, seemingly mostly just for arguments sake.

So, she may take out the broom for me on this point too ..."

I do not think that she meant the posts you have written to me. I'm convinced she referred to your behaviour in general, towards all of us and towards MN.

You are not a big deal. The lies of waldorf and anthroposophy ARE a big deal. I am not arguing for arguments sake - I argue because actually, as a former waldorf student, I happen to have stuff to say about this sorry excuse for an education.

Zzooey:

"I am not arguing for arguments sake - I argue because actually, as a former waldorf student, I happen to have stuff to say about this sorry excuse for an education."

Many people world wide could possibly disagree with what you have to say about it.

Or maybe they all just had geniuses and super talents for parents.

Northern:

"Everyone else has been bullied out of existence."

Experiences seem to differ.

Yes bee, people have different experiences.
But other people like you don't want ALL of them in the open.

Didn't you friend deborah say she heard about bullying on the mothering thread they deleted?
I have a copy of it.
I'll check

She wrote the garbage with you on your site didn't she?

Did you see this list of stuff thst I wrote which ha happened at the school where my kids were?

Do you remeber that thread about the girl who has just left because of her trauma?

Just re read the mothering threads bee, are you in touch with deborah? See if she remembers.

Petek, no.
No one.

I think it's his social life

He's been getting down wid de gels on another thread