Struggling to pay for 6th form

[Charliesunnysky10]

DP & I both attended local state schools and had a tough time getting an education, so when our daughter wanted to go to an independent school for secondary (yrs 7-11), we made arrangements to set aside enough to fund the 5 years. My Dad wasn't too happy and said that the house was not to be mortgaged to pay fees (my mum sadly died 4 years earlier and left us enough to pay off the mortgage). However, there was regular overtime available at DP's work so we managed okay. We hadn't factored in the cost of living increase and I took a 2nd job for the evenings and weekends to ensure we could cover this last year (11).

However, daughter had said she would attend a state sixth form, but has in the last year become desperate to stay at the independent school (she wants to be a dentist and needs AAA which is regularly achieved at her current school's 6th form, but nowhere else locally). On the plus side, she got good mock results (8 x grade 9's and 3 x grade 8's) and when she had the post mock chat about sixth form with school they said they were very keen to keep her for A levels.

However, I'm honestly dead, working a 60 hour week, DP's overtime is sporadic and we can't meet the fees for another 2 years (I sold my car, and walk to both jobs). I've asked my dad again if we could remortgage but he is completely against this and says Mum mum didn't leave me the money for this. He said she has a better chance of getting into Uni going to a state school anyway. I just doubt she'd get the AAA - he says what will be will be.

I spoke with school and they said there is a bursary available and daughter's grades would stand her in good stead. However, reading the application form I'm asked why I can't liquidate assets and I think this is a weak reason. I wouldn't want to go against Mum's wishes but I do feel this is more Dad's take on the situation.

I really don't know what to do, and DP says it's not his parents or money so can't comment, but if it makes me feel any better, he says he's also torn between just applying for bursary and risk them thinking we are unreasonable, and remortgaging, but working like mad for another 2 years to pay it back ASAP.

What would you do?

There is nothing wrong with sending your DD to state 6th form, loads of kids every year get amazing grades that do not attend private school. If she's good enough and prepared to knuckle down then she will do just fine!

She's old enough to understand that you and your DP have busted your arses off for the past 5 years to give her the private education, so she now needs to be humble and show gratitude for that by giving you guys a break and not being so self centred.

I would send your daughter to a state sixth form.

Honestly. You can't borrow for retirement, and you're killing yourselves health-wise trying to keep her in a school that isn't necessary.

Does your Dad feel guilty that you had a tough time getting an education ?

What kind of education did your father have ?

Does he not value education ? as him saying ' what will be, will be ' comes across to me as he doesn't care or think it matters.

Why do you keep asking him / involving him in your educational and financial decisions ?

Does he live with you and is worried he will become homeless one day if for some reason you can't make the mortgage payments and need to sell / downsize etc.

Do you only have one child ? so the question of independent education won't come up again ?

Will your daughter cope mentally and socially with returning to the state education system.

Will she make a new friendship group easily ?

Do you have any assets to sell ? You don't even have a car ?
and I really don't think the school expects you to sell your house and downsize, nor do I think they expect you to sell DH's car !

So apply for the Bursary - even if you got 50% that would be a huge help ?

As to what would I do, I would do everything possible to keep her at her school.

I would imagine remortgaging would be an expensive way to fund two years school fees, have you looked into personal loans? For both sounds like it would be difficult to make repayments.
Also can you daughter earn some money towards fees weekend or summer job.
Very difficult for you to maintain 60 hr weeks and no car.
But I imagine if any way can make it work financially would be better for teenager to stay in school familiar with for last two years.

I played truant to avoid being bullied. I never told my parents at the time even when i was pulled for the absences.

He knows now. But he was a state school teacher and disagrees with independent education. When she sat the entrance test he told me we must do what we feel is right, but he couldnt help with fees or condone us going into debt when he'd honoured my mums request to use the money she left to pay off outstanding loans.

I'm in a MW job now, DP wrnt to state school - it was better than mine (our local one). He hated it though and didnt do well. He found daughters enthusiasm for school a real novelty! He did better at college, and earns a decent, average wage.

Dad passed the 11+ and went to a grammar school. He has MH problems, depression/anxiety. Sometimes hes very interested in her progress, sometimes quite ambivalent. Much of his anxiety and paranoia is about money, because he no longer earns any. I see him every day as we live less than 5 mins from eachother - he's lonely and not in the best health. I do ask his opinion about things to do with the family as we have a good relationship and i want him to know his advice is still helpful, but i can see this might not be the best thing!

We have a much older son who didnt do well in state education but isnt studious like daughter. We engaged with school regularly to no avail, and got tutors in but his peer group, the constant disruption and his own laissez faire outlook meant he came away with a couple of passes and now works in a supermarket (which is fine as long as hes happy).

No, she wont cope well at all. She is captain of the lacrosse team and it isnt played in any state colleges. She lives for it, and moreover, has a very supportive set of friends. In addition, she's selected 4 fairly involved A Levels but they're her favourite subjects and she'll be learning in a class of no more than 8 girls. The STEM provision is extremely good at the school and she loves learning there. Shes not particularly social, and said it'd be such a relief to stay where she is because she can focus entirely on her studies, with a ready made set of friends. I do agree though, a new setting would be good experience for uni & work.

We dont have any assets and a loan would be better than a remortage anyway. And yes, 50% would be a huge help.

I would fill in the bursary and lay it on thick. It doesn’t matter what these people think of you. They aren’t your friends or family or employer. It is the admin dept of an educational institution that is educating your daughter.

Why don’t you liquidate assets —>
The only asset left is our home, we have sold our car and other belongings, we have worked two jobs but this is unsustainable, is damaging our health, and still doesn’t cover the fees. If we remortgage our home the likelihood is that we wouldn’t be able to pay it back and may lose our home. In short we cannot risk the only stability we have for ourselves and our daughter.

You don’t need to mention the situation with inheritance and mum if you can word it something like that. Ask for advice if you can as to the application.

If it fails then remortgage but make it as small as possible.

I wouldn’t risk my child not getting into dentistry, if she works in the private sector she will be very secure.

You do realise that an unsecured personal loan will have a much higher interest rate than a mortgage?

Your daughter sounds very selfish. She is happy that her mother is working sixty hours a week with two jobs and has to walk everywhere but that's okay because she is captain of the lacrosse team. Does she not see how tired and worn out you are?

I went to a state school and so did my husband (but the school he went to was much better). I am a solicitor with an accounting degree as well, my husband was a scientist and our state school attending son - went to his dad's old school - is a fifth year medical student. Many of the state school children did very well at university because the state school children who got to university were hard workers and self starters. Some of the private school children who were suddenly off the leash went a bit crazy.

My parents did consider whether they could scrape up enough to send me to a private school but concluded that they just couldn't afford it. They supported me through university and I was keen to get through my degrees as quickly as possible and start earning so I wasn't a burden on them. I took on a huge university workload to do that.

I do think that she will get the bursary because I doubt they expect you to remortgage a primary home. But in the worst case scenario, it’s a different situation to your son. She could go to the state sixth form and you can top her up with tuition, if she engages she will get the same grades.

Don’t get a loan that is a daft idea.

Bursary likely.

and if not remortgage, it is unfair of your dad to micromanage your life, it really is none of his business how you and your husband choose to deal to support your daughter.

The fact that you're considering a loan instead of a remortgage speaks volumes OP.

A loan is a much more expensive way to borrow. As mortgage interest rates rise, loan interest rise even higher.

A mortgage will be cheaper to repay (repayments split say over 5 years) than 2 years of fees in that time, it's a mole maths.

Apply for the bursary. Do what's right for your dd. But take some proper financial advice before borrowing money. And it really is none of your dad's business. It sounds like he'd rather you run yourself into the ground than even consider taking out a small loan to give your dad an excellent opportunity.

Your daughter can achieve the grades and HE place she wants from a state 6th form. Of course the school want to keep her with those GCSE results!

Students really should be taking responsibility for their own learning at A level. A good teacher is always nice but there are great resources available.

Cast the net widely and consider any school or college she can reasonably travel to.

Don't put yourself into unnecessary debt or work unsustainable hours. That's silly.

Good advice.

OP, thanks for the details. Based on what you've said about yours and your DH's job I'm impressed that you've paid for 5 years of private school, that is no small achievement.

Regarding friendship groups - it's by no means guaranteed that your DD's friendship group will all stay, as PP have said there's a lot of movement at 6th form in all sectors.

Sport - acknowledge that's tough. But is that a big enough factor to make up for the financial stress you already have and will have?

Your DD's feelings and perspective on this now are one thing. However, delicately, she's 15/16 and may not have a full insight now into how much effort you're making to cover fees.

As PP have said, if you do borrow, mortgage is much more economical that loan. But...you will in effect be borrowing against your retirement, which if you and your DH are in your 40s isn't as far off as you think.

Have you got the space to take in a lodger?

I don't think the 3 As are the issue here, she would likely get those at another school if she applies herself. I totally sympathise with how much more comfortable she would be at her current school and it genuinely would be a shame about the lacrosse.

However, I would be wary of risking your health and financial future if the bursary doesn't come through and maybe that needs to be made clear to your DD. Also, a friend has a DD just applying now for a professional course, all 9s in GSCEs and predicted all As and been rejected by all but one university so far and I am wondering if the fact she is at private school may be a factor here (she is a lovely girl who I would think would also come across very well at interview).

My advice would be to put everything into getting the bursary. I don't think you've stated your ages but with a much older child I would think maybe late 40s or early 50s and you don't want to be adding to debt if you can avoid it.

I would go for the bursary and be honest with the school. They probably intend for parents to sell one of their ski chalets rather than remortgage their only home!

If that doesn’t work, I’d remortgage and not tell Dad. Tell him she got the bursary. I would also say to DD that in order to pay for her sixth you need a commitment from her to stay at home for uni, as you’ll need to pay back the mortgage asap.

I would do whatever it takes to keep DD at her school, it’s definitely in her best interests. And I’m a leftie and don’t even agree with private education!

A couple of points strike me. 2 years at 6th form won't be a massive remortgage if you choose to. Your decision, not dad's.

Why your daughter got to pick her school when it has cost you this much is beyond me. It is up to you as parents.

There's no reason that she won't achieve at a state 6th form, plenty do. And she is bright and apparently well educated.

I'd keep her in the private school if it's at all possible.

It would be a huge shift for the last couple of years and it sounds like the investment has provided the outcomes you wanted, so it would be a shame to cut it off just at the most pivotal point in her education.

I'd go for bursary as much as possible and take out a personal loan rather than getting a mortgage, that way you aren't lying to your DF, but you cut yourself a bit of slack from working so hard.

I agree with JustKeepSwimming - the school don't need to know all the ins and outs of your finances and your situation is exactly what a bursary is for - we did the same for my daughter at secondary and it was all fine. The school will want her to stay for all sorts of reasons - good results, sports participation and maintaining the status of the school not least, so it's in their interests to help you financially.

Don’t tell your Dad? If you end up having to lie to him, it’s only because his asking prying questions about your finances. I’m sure your Mum wouldn’t want you to work yourself to the bone - you’d just be in with the vast majority of people your age having a (small?) mortgage.

It’s inappropriate to keep using ‘mum’s last wish’ as a way to dictate what you do with your cash. This isn’t coke and strippers - it’s your daughters education. It does sound like she’s made the most of the opportunity so far too

I think there’s no better use of money than your daughters education. I’d do anything to keep her there. It’s only 2 years.
I couldn’t take her out of the school she loves, has thrived in, has settled in, because my dad thought my deceased mother would be upset. Your mum isn’t here, and who’s to say if she was what she would have thought about the situation. It’s irrelevant anyway: she isn’t here, your daughter is, and has her whole life ahead of her.
The culture in her private school is clearly one of hard work if the grades are regularly so high, and the state schools near you sadly don’t have that work ethic. Whilst she may have developed ambition and motivation at her current school, moving her could damage that. 16-18 is a HUGELY important time for development of identity, further investments in friendships, and burgeoning independence and I would want her exposed to an environment in which she is known to thrive.

Totally agree.

Both mine left their private school to go to the local state 6th form college. One is graduating Uni and the other has had offers from all five Uni choices and I’ve saved a fortune in unnecessary school fees and sleepless nights trying to pay for it.

The loss of friendship group at this stage would likely be worst than anything. Do it for her wellbeing. Regardless of her choice of university subject.

The thing is OP, in 2 years your daughter will need fees for Uni, accomodation, living expenses. Would you be able to support this AND borrow against the house or other loan to get her through 6th form?
Try for the bursary and if that is not successful I would go for the local 6th Form. If she is bright and dedicated, she will get the grades. If she looks like she struggling in state, pay for tuition (much cheaper than school fees)