Don't worry about affording private school. My experiences as a mature uni student have convinced me private school is a waste of money.

[Joffmognum]

For context: I didn't go to uni at the usual time - I was a teenage mum, didn't do A-Levels, dropped out of school and had DS unplanned aged 18. Working class, worked minimum wage jobs, rented a room, toddler and I shared one bed, etc. I was well into my twenties before I had £1000 to my name. But I decided that I wanted to go to university anyway, so, with a lot of hard work, and after waiting for DS to grow up a bit, I did. I'm now 26 and almost done with an engineering integrated masters degree at a very nice, top 10 university.

I've since befriended a lot of other students who went to private schools, including boarding schools. And they're VERY aware that their parents spent £100k+ on an education that meant they "could go" to a university like ours - which gives them A LOT of pressure - but they're going to the same place I am? Which I managed to get into with a young child to care for, an underfunded state college course, and not quite enough food in the fridge?

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Like, if they have the drive to go to a nice university, they will anyway? And if they can't get the appropriate grades on a state-level education, they'll find it very difficult once they're there?

There's so much depression, anxiety and stress amongst students these days. I adore university and the technical internships I've done through it, but among the private school kids especially, their hearts often don't seem in it, like they're doing it because of inertia.

One told me recently that the reason he works so hard for firsts is because he can't face telling his dad he got low grades, because he knows how expensive his boarding school was. Another confided in me today that he doesn't actually want to be an automotive engineer: he'd rather be a mechanic.

I went to private schools (including boarding school) before attending a state school. The contrast was stark. I went from being surrounded by bright, motivated children who not only took their education seriously but were inspired daily to find their passion/ explore their talents to a rowdy, overcrowded environment where more time was spent addressing bad behavior than teaching. Of course there are excellent state schools and naturally bright children will thrive in (almost) any environment. But if you can afford this (and there are a lot of parents in the state sector who can), why wouldn't you choose this for your children?

And I can tell you for sure that my peers who went to private school are doing better than me - because while I was fighting for jobs (and often not getting them), they were being handed opportunities by Daddy and his friends.

You’re mixing having money and parents being in a position to ‘hand opportunities’ to their dcs and going to private school.

If there was no private school system, those parents would STILL pay fur ballet lessons 3x a week, give their dcs tuition right from the start. Their dcs would still meet other influential people just because they happen to be people in their parents network/friends.

Very interesting thread. I would say it's partly about results/academia/ increasing chance of getting into a profession and partly about a "whole life advantage" regardless.

I went to a private primary/prep which had the aim of preparing as many pupils as possible to get into the local grammar schools. I was a massive daydreamer (eventually diagnosed wish inattentive adhd in my 40s) and my parents thought, probably correctly that I'd be "lost" in a large class in a state primary. There was enough individual attention and "drive" at private to get me on track. I had a good brain but hopeless at focusing it without direction.

Likewise the grammar school was very driven towards achievement and getting into a good uni (almost everyone from school went and this was in the 80s/90s when it was not as common as it is now). There was kind of nowhere to rebel because everyone was doing the same thing and wanted to learn and achieve.

I do think there was an element of snobbishness from my parents afoot too. They were strict and very religious. They didn't like us mixing with "common" children and didn't want us to have the distraction of boys at secondary school (the grammar was single sex).

I grew up to have quite left wing views but I can't deny that my early education has helped me be more successful in my career and social standing than I would likely have been otherwise. My GCSE and A level results were decent but not spectacular but the "polish" other pps have mentioned us definitely a factor. If I'm in my scruffy gym gear or parka with a messy bun I've noticed people's demeanour towards me shifts dramatically once I say anything (being well spoken was drummed into me my both parents and school). It makes me uncomfortable that people become deferential or warmer in response to my diction but I can't deny it happens either.

You sound vile.

I don’t know anyone who sends their kids to private school so they can go to a nice university. It is not a secret that all universities at home and most abroad have a majority state educated cohort of students, including the “nice” or “top” ones.

people send kids to private schools for lots of reasons including academic stretching, academic support, pastoral reasons, SEN reasons, social cohort, pre and after school care and boarding, geography/public transport, quality of music and sport provision, beautiful grounds… whatever.

I am delighted you have achieved your goal and got to a great uni for you, but to think that means private school fees paid for some of your peers’ education were a waste of money is drawing a false conclusion.

If there was no private school system, those parents would STILL pay fur ballet lessons 3x a week, give their dcs tuition right from the start. Their dcs would still meet other influential people just because they happen to be people in their parents network/friends
Agree with this.

I've worked in the state system my whole career and some schools have exactly the same networks because the parents and children tend to socialise with each other, then parents help each others' children out with work experience and advice. There's lots of careers events in one school I worked at with professional parents opening doors/providing opportunities to learn more so the children at School A get a much better access to a range of opportunities than School B based on the number of parents in certain jobs who are willing and able to go into school.

These threads always make me laugh because it always vastly oversimplifies issues and becomes a caricature of the two sectors. In reality there's a huge range of experiences across both.

@Delphigirl beautiful grounds… whatever.

Sigh. I would have loved to go to school with sprawling grounds or even decent sporting fields.

My secondary school had concrete, with cars parked right up to the 'playground' which was more a strip between buildings. No demarcation between the two other than yellow lines. You could sit on a car bonnet if you were inclined. There was a patch of grass with a thin border which served as a 'garden' but you couldn't do a thing in it. Totally uninspiring. The inner soul wasn't to be refined in any way was the point of it all I think. Leave school, then work.

@LolaSmiles - totally agree with your point

These threads always make me laugh because it always vastly oversimplifies issues and becomes a caricature of the two sectors. In reality there's a huge range of experiences across both.

The difference is not just about public exam grades and getting to university, especially at earlier stages. Private schools have more freedom to teach beyond the curriculum and good ones provide a broader education.
The down side is that private school kids will be more used to being pushed to succeed and this is a shock when you get to Uni and you have to be more self-motivated.

@ChiaraRimini

Exactly. Real low state schools (like mine) basically were stripped to the core subjects (double science, maths, English) - while things like music (I have NEVER had a single lesson on how to play an instrument, even recorder), art (once a week), sports and after school clubs (mine basically didn't have any) are sacrificed.

Actually those extra skills build not only confidence, but also stress coping mechanisms. Kids at my school coped by cutting, not by music or art or anything constructive

@Flyingfup

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing that! After partygate.........

Actually those extra skills build not only confidence, but also stress coping mechanisms.

This is exactly why we chose to move dcs from state to private in the middle of secondary school.
Dc2 is on the spectrum and this is the type of environment that allowed him to flourish because 1- it has been supportive rather than simply ignoring him and 2- he had the opportunity to try many things that he would never have done otherwise. This in turn made him more confident and able to handle life in general. He is now at Uni, enjoying himself, coping with no major issues. This was nowhere a given when he started there

This, especially the latter point is sooo good.

Art!😩

Deemed and presented as a luxury subject. Once a week lessons. Also beyond the point of practical application (doing pottery, painting, using different media) stripped down greatly. Very little Art Appreciation.

No concentration on the Renaissance and the massive influence that had on Art and crafts. I didn't learn what that word Renaissance meant till I was an adult. We didn't do any Art trips at Secondary. Not that I remember. Fortunately my Aunt took me to galleries, as she loves art. At school it was always mostly about jobs.

I went with DS to a private 6th form open day and I was wishing I was the one with the opportunity to go. The Classical Studies and the Art A-level courses were simply amazing.

I would probably have agreed with you at one point.
But since having my children who have SEN I have completely changed my mind. Mainstream state schools right now are too busy, noisy and demanding. The environment is wrong and the help available insufficient. It is incredibly stressful for them and damaging to their mental health. Private looks like a great solution - I now know so many parents who make sacrifices or use inheritances, even move house so their child can go to private school. Without which their child won't cope or thrive and yes university wouldn't be a consideration either if you can't access education in mainstream and your mental health is in tatters. Private school wasn't about connections or prestige. The LA pays for it in some cases via an EHCP!
I only wish the facilities, small class sizes and opportunities were available to all. The next government need to stop bashing private schools and urgently start improving state schools and SEN support.

Unfortunately the issue is what happens next. The expensive private school opens doors that are closed to the rest of us despite the same qualifications. Which is exactly what's happened in my career. I'm in my 40s now, very mid ranking despite working so hard at it for 2 decades. Much less skilled people soar into senior jobs and senior salaries by their early 30s due to personal connections.

DysonSpheres yes that's the sort of thing I meant. State schools don't have the time or resource to do more than teach to the test, I'm sure the teachers don't like it either.
TBF my DC state school are pretty good on drama and music clubs but I know we are lucky compared to many.
Both my DSs did drama GCSE as I think it's good for confidence to get experience of performing.

I'm not commenting on your personal circs, but when people say this is usually complete nonsense. People say that about Ofsted rated good and outstanding secondaries in my area.

My parents lived overseas until I was 11. When we relocated to the UK they, believing in state education, gamely enrolled me in the local state school. My mum joined the governors + they really tried to make it work for me.

the problem was I stuck out like a sore thumb. I’d grown up somewhere else and I had been home schooled so I was pretty ahead of the academic curve + a bit out the loop socially.

we lived in a nice, clean + tidy house -
school friends were always welcome to come and play / raid the fridge etc.

I was brutalised. Partly by the other students for being a bit different, but more painfully - by their parents. Who lauged at the way I spoke, who told their children not to invite me over. The final straw came when some girls in the year above + their older siblings picked me up and put me in a ditch - and then threw all my things into the canal.

the aftermath involved the school trying to have a meeting with some of the parents who basically laughed and said I was a freak and I’d brought it on myself. I was 12.

my mum snapped + enrolled me in a private girls school instead. It was like breathing oxygen after months underwater. I was encouraged + celebrated for my academic success, people were curious about my life experiences. I made friends, other girls invited me to their sleepovers.

i suppose when people have made a genuine investment in their child’s education they are perhaps more likely to stay positively socially and organisationally invested in it too?

I genuinely am not sure I would have made it through secondary school at the first place.

good state schools are world class.

bad ones are fighting an uphill battle against the communities they operate in.

I wish I knew what the answer was to give all children access to good quality education - but it feels hard to imagine how one can police parenting and community attitudes.

I’m so sorry you went through that @Hooplahooping .

I am not sure direct personal connections made at school count for a lot unless you went to a big name public school and Oxbridge, there are a lot of private school kids who aren't in that top layer. But the top levels of the professions and the civil service are still stuffed with boarding school/Oxbridge those types of people because they recognise their own and they recruit "people like us".

Noticed the OP never came back? This is surprising as presumably she is a whiz at time management, given that in a mere 8 years she has had a baby as a lone parent, living alone, resat and got decent scores in her previously-failed A levels, applied for and succeeded in a 3 year engineering degree, did a 1 year masters AND worked minimum wage jobs.

On the off-chance this is true - OP you must see that this level or work and achievement is unreachable for many, and the reason some parents (not me) pay for private schooling is exactly to save their children the need and risk of this?

Present anecdata as a fait accompli

Realise you probably don’t have quite the bombproof argument you imagined

Disappear to avoid being challenged or having to engage in robust debate…

A skill set that suggests a glittering political career awaits! Or maybe big oil?

Both my DSs did drama GCSE as I think it's good for confidence to get experience of performing.

Absolutely, yes! But you are obviously very involved in your children and facilitate their interests, know from first-hand experience the limitations of state schooling and are able and willing to compensate for that, and that accounts for a great deal of advantage in and of itself so your children are likely to do well.

all the private school threads lately .... just reckon they are trying to stir up division

Sadly that isn’t always true. The two girls I know with serious mental health issues were at private school. It can be a lot of pressure which won’t suit every child. Parental expectations can feed into that