Don't worry about affording private school. My experiences as a mature uni student have convinced me private school is a waste of money.

[Joffmognum]

For context: I didn't go to uni at the usual time - I was a teenage mum, didn't do A-Levels, dropped out of school and had DS unplanned aged 18. Working class, worked minimum wage jobs, rented a room, toddler and I shared one bed, etc. I was well into my twenties before I had £1000 to my name. But I decided that I wanted to go to university anyway, so, with a lot of hard work, and after waiting for DS to grow up a bit, I did. I'm now 26 and almost done with an engineering integrated masters degree at a very nice, top 10 university.

I've since befriended a lot of other students who went to private schools, including boarding schools. And they're VERY aware that their parents spent £100k+ on an education that meant they "could go" to a university like ours - which gives them A LOT of pressure - but they're going to the same place I am? Which I managed to get into with a young child to care for, an underfunded state college course, and not quite enough food in the fridge?

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Like, if they have the drive to go to a nice university, they will anyway? And if they can't get the appropriate grades on a state-level education, they'll find it very difficult once they're there?

There's so much depression, anxiety and stress amongst students these days. I adore university and the technical internships I've done through it, but among the private school kids especially, their hearts often don't seem in it, like they're doing it because of inertia.

One told me recently that the reason he works so hard for firsts is because he can't face telling his dad he got low grades, because he knows how expensive his boarding school was. Another confided in me today that he doesn't actually want to be an automotive engineer: he'd rather be a mechanic.

You seem to misunderstand the premise, one shares one’s experience and observations. I will reiterate in my experience private school educated are more confident,seem to less impostor syndrome. I was state school educated and for years felt inadequate in my profession amongst many private educated peers. People who were comfortable from the get go and had grown up in professional families, familiar with the behaviour and language of the job. Let’s stick with medicine, private school pupild Technically and academicslly they are not necessarily better at medicine or better doctors etc. As foundation doctors They are more familiarised and confident though because they grew up immersed in it

Lots of typos, jumpy iPad

Yes, and luckily there are some social policies being out in place to level the playing field. Some of those advantages have little to do with potential and everything to do with snobbery and nepotism

OP do you know former classmates of yours who are just as clever as the private school students you are studying with who have not fulfilled their potential? Perhaps due to not so great exam results or not being encouraged to believe in themselves?

I’m not a fan of private schools, but watching friends’ DC at private schools I see the middle-of-the-road kids who are the ones at an advantage compared to their state school equivalents. The motivated and very academic kids will succeed (in terms of university) no matter where they go to school. And motivated and academic includes you.

We used to say at work that the exceptional woman got promoted along with the mediocre men and the exceptional men. The mediocre women didn’t get anywhere. I think that’s the case wherever there is discrimination or a starting advantage - you can point to the people who have succeeded despite a disadvantage, but until the mediocre disadvantaged people also get the promotion/the degree etc there isn’t equality.

I’m not justifying private school,I’m making a factual observation. Private school confers advantages both socially and financially
is it fair? Hell no
Am I buying advantage? Absolutely
would I prefer their be no private school and a universally great education for all,yes of course

@AnneWhittle

...Private education buys you social skills, connections and above all a sense of entitlement that...

There are plenty of entitled kids in state schools too believe me. I've taught a fair few of them.
Schools don't set out to encourage an entitled attitude; maybe look at the parents instead!

definitely we are not sending our children to go to uni -extracurriculars, sport, music, drama, more green space, small classes, facilities, better and more resources, clubs and trips, mental health there are so many reasons… my children met so many successful leaders, scientists during their studies..

I believe students can focus more on their studies in private school and almost all of them studies A levels after their GCSEs.
Maybe you were not going to get pregnant before your A levels if you were in private school ..

Of course state school children can achieve highly, OP. No one doubts that.

But there are many reasons for going private, not all of them are academic.

We chose private schooling for the excellent sport and arts opportunities along with the higher expectations of student behaviour.

We also found the beautiful architecture inspirational.

And there were subjects on the curriculum (drama, elocution, Latin, Greek, textiles, lacrosse, hockey) that the state school did not offer.

For three children it has cost us a fortune, but we would choose the same again.

My child is in a small, nurturing private school because she has autism and wouldn’t get in a specialist school - even though she should do - and she wouldn’t be able to cope in a large secondary. I would be happy if she got 4 low grade GCSEs. I would pay every penny I have to give her more opportunities and classes small enough that she can cope. Results aren’t everything.

It's not just about where you end up, though. It's about the educational experience along the way. Most parents want their children to be happy at school and to have the chance to fulfil their potential. Good schools provide this. Some are private and some are not. Unfortunately not everyone will have access to a good state school, which I'm assuming is a large part of why some parents go private.

I went to private school and am not as successful as my state educated boss. Do I wish my parents had sent me to a state school and saved the cash? Not at all. I had a fantastic time at school, they chose an excellent school which really suited me. My DD1 is now at a similar school and thriving. She's studying subjects that aren't available at the state schools she would have been able to get a place at. She takes part in 7 extra curricular activities at school, more than seem to be available at our local state schools. The lessons are at the right pace for her and she doesn't have to put up with the sort of behaviour that she found deeply irritating at primary school. She's there for the experience not for where it gets her and we are very clear about this with her. She doesn't owe us any sort of career or success in later life.

We're hoping DD2 will also go to a private secondary. Partly for the same reasons - to enjoy her education - but also because she has mild SEN and I think support at that level is often missing in state schools.

I'm not sure why valuing education for enjoyment rather than a means to an end isn't a more widely held view. Maybe it's a luxury view point (though it isn't the preserve of private schools), or maybe it's a cultural/family thing. You can certainly track it back through generations of my family and DH's.

Angela Rayner?

The thing is OP, you’re the exception, not the rule. A lot of people in your circumstances, both personal and socioeconomic wouldn’t be able to achieve what you’ve achieved, for many reasons. You’ve done brilliantly, but you’re in a very small cohort of people in your situation who’ve done brilliantly, comparative to people from private school who’ve done brilliantly.

Sending your kids to private school overcomes some of those barriers - likely they’ll have better teaching and small classes, so better grades. Better advice about university choices and support with the process. More confidence and social capital.

It’s not fair, but it’s not correct to say private school is a waste of money. Statistically, you do better in life if you’ve been to private schools. There’s obviously a lot more to it than just private schools, but those are the facts.

Really? I disagree

As a privately educated person, married to another and raising 5 children who will also go to private school- I agree. I think it is entirely possible to have a successful career and good+ financial situation without coming from money/private education.

I strongly believe no one should 'just about afford' private school. Working more hours/another job to pay is not worth it. Paying the fees instead of eating or going on holiday ever again is not worth it.

DH works with many people at the same level as him who are not privately educated, who have minimal qualifications and degrees.

A state-educated doctor’s child will be a more confident FY1 than a privately-educated businessman’s child, because as you say they have grown up with it. I’m not convinced a privately-educated doctor’s child will be much different from a state-educated doctor’s child.

Even moving away from medicine, I agree that growing up with professional parents will make a difference to your comfort level in professional settings, but statistically, most professionals send their children to state schools. There’s no reason a grammar school educated lawyer’s child would feel out of place in a professional setting compared to a privately-educated plumber’s child.

My siblings and my friends who went to private school were all sent because they were not doing very well in state school. As a parent, my own kid’s peers are being sent to private school because ‘they’re not very academic’.
It is entirely anecdotal, but for me, private school is where kids get sent that aren’t good enough to do well in state school when their parents can afford it.
Private schools get kids grades that they would not otherwise have achieved in state schools. Universities are now much more aware of this and tend to offer places accordingly.

You can tell who is and isn’t posh, but that doesn’t necessarily map onto private school attendance.

There are some very posh kids at selective state grammars, and some non-posh kids at “normal” private schools.

I sent my child to private school so she didn’t have to deal with judgmental people like many on this thread.

As a once young, dirt poor working class, very self-motivated, too bright for my cohort, sent to a rough comprehensive to endure being bullied for being a boffin, labeled a coconut (this was a time when speaking well, or being too bright was often deemed trying to be or sound 'white' and not cool for black ethnic-carribbean kids, plus teachers had little faith or expectation in us either. THANK GOD it's changed now) who would have died and literally shed blood for the opportunity to go to a private school, I cannot agree with this.

The curriculum differences alone! We didn't even do Shakespeare. I had to buy guides from WHSmith and buy the 99p plays and labour strenuously through the language and try and teach myself as best I could. History was constrained to modern events with hugely watered down ancient history. No Roman or Greek philosophy or geopolitics to explain how we are where we are as as a civilization. I had large books of botanical drawings given to me by my Aunt and I desperately wanted to be able to understand Latin to be able to pronounce the labels and describing text correctly, but of course, no such option in a comprehensive. I feel I have big gaps in my education. Our foreign language teaching was constrained to French and Spanish, with stand in teachers every other week, as languages were the classes that students disrupted the most. Few students had the chance to learn an instrument from scratch in school.

I've tried to catch up over the years as an adult, fortunately I was a big reader, so it helped a bit, but I have felt constantly that I missed out on a solid start in life and an understanding of the world that would have stretched my intellect and (perhaps) have prevented me making some pretty awful life decisions after leaving school.

In the end, I hated Secondary school so much (it was obvious to me it wasn't about 'education', it was about fitting in and jumping through hoops, though I couldn't articulate it at the time, and I started rebelling. Literally my rebellion was skipping school to go to any of the 6 or so libraries within walking or bus travel distance because I could read far more interesting things there. My parents were clueless and my home life wasn't great either. I really needed good schooling something solid and dependable. As it was after 4 years, I eventually decided to just try and get in with the cooler street girls and try not to be clever and I went downhill from there.

Private school gives you POLISH (an actual academically defined benefit of private school social conditioning by some psychologists) good socially advantageous networks, and to me it shines like daylight, it is really obvious. And even when the person is clearly not very intellectually clever, it gives them a sort of self belief, better speaking ability, knowledge of the 'in things' and behavioural codes that help you get in with people higher up the social ladder, a sort of hauteur (which can be nasty at the receiving end) and far better bullshit-my-way-through skills if nothing else. Look at some of the privately educated 'it' girls of the 90's and 2000's.

Look at Catherine Duchess of Wales, despite being middle-class, she fit almost seamlessly into the Royal family, she went to boarding school and then St Andrews. She wouldn't have got there if she had attended a comprehensive!

I do think the difference between attending private or comprehensive matters less possibly if you're from a MC or capable WC background, with well functioning parents who facilitate learning in ways which do not even seem to be obvious like speaking to children with a wider vocabulary, less authoritarian parenting style, more discovery based cultural hoildays, more emphasis on reading. That might, along with hard work, or simply above the mean IQ, give someone enough of a push that yes, private school wouldn't perhaps have added much more, and they can outpace someone privately educated who isn't as intelligent or academic, so it seems to confer no real advantages they wouldn't have attained themselves. But for those without such advantages, private school is (overall, there are exceptions to every rule) a huge life boon.

*dirt-poor working class girl

Grammar and state selective aren’t inclusive either,they’re essentially free private school for middle classes. Working class children are underrepresented in grammar and state selective schools.

My observation is that regard work and confidence, the private school educated I encounter don’t appear to have imposter syndrome or feel other in their own profession.

Given the vast majority of people attend a state school of course professionals parents and affluent parents chose state schools, they have the ability to buy in catchment and tutor . Not all state schools are created equally and there is cheating etc to secure a place at a good state school

Yes I’m well aware of that - that was my point. Family background has a much bigger impact than schooling alone.

Congratulations on your achievements. That takes determination and I salute you.

I'm a single mum with a ds in independent school. It's a stretch for me but the alternative was a chaotic state school which Ofsted judged unsafe for the pupils, and put in to special measures shortly after. It was subsequently wound up.

DS won a scholarship to his school, where he is happy and engaged, after several years of being bored, angry and bullied at his primary.

Getting in to a Russell Group university is not why I do this. I willingly pay the fees to give him a happy childhood, where he enjoys school. A good education will give him choices. What he chooses to do with it will be up to him.