Don't worry about affording private school. My experiences as a mature uni student have convinced me private school is a waste of money.

[Joffmognum]

For context: I didn't go to uni at the usual time - I was a teenage mum, didn't do A-Levels, dropped out of school and had DS unplanned aged 18. Working class, worked minimum wage jobs, rented a room, toddler and I shared one bed, etc. I was well into my twenties before I had £1000 to my name. But I decided that I wanted to go to university anyway, so, with a lot of hard work, and after waiting for DS to grow up a bit, I did. I'm now 26 and almost done with an engineering integrated masters degree at a very nice, top 10 university.

I've since befriended a lot of other students who went to private schools, including boarding schools. And they're VERY aware that their parents spent £100k+ on an education that meant they "could go" to a university like ours - which gives them A LOT of pressure - but they're going to the same place I am? Which I managed to get into with a young child to care for, an underfunded state college course, and not quite enough food in the fridge?

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Like, if they have the drive to go to a nice university, they will anyway? And if they can't get the appropriate grades on a state-level education, they'll find it very difficult once they're there?

There's so much depression, anxiety and stress amongst students these days. I adore university and the technical internships I've done through it, but among the private school kids especially, their hearts often don't seem in it, like they're doing it because of inertia.

One told me recently that the reason he works so hard for firsts is because he can't face telling his dad he got low grades, because he knows how expensive his boarding school was. Another confided in me today that he doesn't actually want to be an automotive engineer: he'd rather be a mechanic.

In some Northern European countries there is a stigma attached to public school. Children go there if they struggle in mainstream education, particularly where the State system streams pupils at the secondary level (e.g. Gymnasium). There is a general perception that the pupils who leave these private schools are not very bright and into partying/drugs. I wonder whether the UK will follow (Cameron and Johnson were not great ambassadors).

I think you can because most private school people I meet are a bit weird. Even if it’s not immediately obvious why they’re a bit weird. I am confident there are specific parts of society where it’s normal to have had a private education, and those people can communicate and socialise easily with one another. But here in regular Joe land doing regular jobs, not so much. Maybe there are secret privately educated people who I don’t know about, but I’ve met enough weirdos who arrogantly announce as proudly as they can that they went to private school for me to have formed this opinion.

@Teateaandmoretea in some cases yes, but in other cases no - you might already live in catchment, or a school might move up the rankings. However in the case of private schools - with the exception of scholarships- by and large you have to pay and afford fees.

You seem determined to make sure that my point is absolutely refuted whereas I acknowledge nuance.

We'll have to agree to disagree I feel.

I agree, I remember my mum saying to me if she’d paid for my brother and I to be privately educated she’d have had very high academic expectations.

Both my brother and I went to uni and are now in professional jobs which we managed without that additional pressure to achieve because my parents paid for our education. I think it would’ve been too much pressure for me anyway so grateful I went to state school.

If you think the main reason kids are sent to private school is to get into a top uni then you’ve misunderstood the entire point.

Grades are only part of it. Separating kids into elite circles changes the trajectory of their entire life. It decides who they’ll befriend, the jobs they’ll get, who they’ll marry, how their own kids will be raised. You don’t ‘catch up’ because you went to a top uni. You’re already too far behind.

We aren’t disagreeing on anything that I can see. As you say there is nuance it is as simple as that. People are in different, individual situations.

On your point about some private schooled people struggling at uni I completely agree. It's a big jump, when you haven't got the coaching and can struggle.

On the stress and anxiety I disagree, uni and family expectations are hard on everyone.

On private schools not having a difference to academic outcomes im skeptical. Studious , bright children do great in state but that's not every bright child.

And career, I really hope this isn't your experience but I'm 20 years in to a career which crosses over with high-level politics, civil service and blue chips. Private school is the norm. At lower levels there's more diversity but by mid-career it changes. As a state school (middle class) northerner I have more in common with non UK colleagues.

Ps. I don't think PS produces a different breed they are often nice, cool people. But it does instill confidence and worth which I personally have had to build. And the blinkers to massive chunks of life! I'll forever remember a meeting with Sport England with lots of lovely healthy people were looking to tackle smoking and inactivity in pregnancy. I was the only person in the room who didn't just say "I don't know why anyone would smoke during pregnancy". Yes, that's the point, even those who smoke find this hard to articulate. You have to find a non-judgemental way to reduce harm or ask for support.

Fair enough @Teateaandmoretea - it was the statement that the 'biggest gap is in the access to the best state schools' that I was responding to.

Either way - I apologise for not understanding- wish you a nice day.

Got to get on with work now :-)

I work in Finance so work with a broad range of people from private school backgrounds to those that have worked their way up from being a branch manager.

Private schooling gives you confidence and (to a degree) a sense of entitlement that allows you to progress quicker, but you can still get there by other means.

Agree with comments about SEN children. A private school is in the mix for our secondary options. My DS is academic but has ADHD, much of the provision for SEN children is appalling TBH, especially if they aren't at EHCP level.

I will 100% pay for private school if need be for a smaller classroom, more nurturing environment and a happier school experience.

Well done on your achievements. You should give talks about your inspiring experience at state schools. However, leaving out the bit about private schools. Many parents that just afford it do not send their kids to private school primarily to chase a top university. Agree that some wealthy parents or from certain cultures push their kids too much. That could be irrelevant of where they go to school. Think state school kids education being top up with tutors.

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Why on earth do you think that's the main reason?

Where do you find private schools that cater for Sen children? The ones I've seen openly persuade you to leave if you have any barriers that can tarnish their amazing results or god forbid upset the other parents who pay thousands on fees.

I can only speak from our own experience.

Our two sons go to private school. They are still young but honestly I don't care if they go to university or not.

I also don't expect them to get higher marks than if they were at a state school.

I'm actually baffled that someone would think this.

They go to a private school as we have dreadful state schools around us. Our eldest has SEN and wouldn't cope well in a class of 30+ kids.

The extra curricular activities are great and the facilities are fantastic. The opportunities the children get are definitely superior to those at the local state school.

I don't think the teachers are better and to be honest I don't think the exam results are comparable as the school my kids are at is a selective school whereas obviously the state schools are not.

I just want my kids to be happy and settled and do the best they can. I certainly will not hold it against them if they don't go to university or get top grades. To me schooling is way more than that.

In young people you can definitely tell those who went private and state schools.

Private schooled people are generally more confident, have less trauma stories RE bullying and school anxiety. They also seem to have more understanding of critical thinking.

They also have a pre awareness of stuff related to professional jobs (ie. What networking is, what boards/steering groups are, how to influence/debate.)

Absolutely. Spot on! Confidence in elite circles dominated by people with acquired privilege is incredibly important.

@Kaill Also very good summary of the OP's flawed reasoning.

The OP has managed to overlook all the factors including race, parental background and narrow curriculum that make doing well both during and after a State school education extremely challenging for some (too many) children.

And fear of knife crime in state schools isn't just a posh cliche. In some areas it is a real concern, with parents having to think about which route a child might have to take travelling both to and from school and whether it cuts across certain boundaries/overlaps certain boroughs where gangs might target children not from that area. If you cannot do school drop-off and pickup, and you live in an area of high juvenile knife crime, you have to think about public transport and whether you wish your child to catch the bus (increases exposure to possible negative influences and the after-school behaviour on buses can be atrocious) or go to a better school further away so they can catch the train instead.

@EnoughIsay Thanks!

Newuser75
Some of my friends have moved from state to private. They're not better teachers in the private sector, but they were definitely the stronger end of state teacher.

You're right that the teachers aren't better in private, but I also know of state teachers with such awful subject knowledge that no private school would take them. In my experience private teachers are no different to the better end of state teachers. They've just got the ability to focus on teaching instead of all the other rubbish that gets in the way.

Well done, great achievement! My wife went through university with a baby in her arms. I know from our experience that it's virtually impossible to go through higher education when you have a baby if you don't have help from the partner or your parents.
However private school in my opinion (went to boarding school since 11) gives you more then uni. I really grew up and developed all the skills in the boarding school. That's why all of my income goes towards school fees of my kids.

We send ours to private school for:
The small classes (10 with a teacher and TA in Reception and Year 1, with a floating TA)
The specialist teaching in French, PE, Art, Music and ICT.
The ASC's in a variety of things (my DDs do sewing club, pottery, pony club and netball club).

My DD6 is struggling with reading so is having extra support for 30 mins a day until she catches up.
There is wrap around care inc in price from 7:45am-6pm.

There are many reasons why we choose to spend most of our desposable income on private school, and the reason that they may go to a good university doesn't even enter my mind.

Yes you are probably right.

if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university

Yeah, that’s nine times out of ten not the reason that parents would pay for private education.

If I could afford to I think I would send my kids to private school. I would have LOVED to go to private school, I loved learning but if you made that known at my school you would be bullied relentlessly. I got into a RG university and have a PhD, but it's more than that. It's an unfair world we live in but it's human nature to want the best for your children. Maybe by the time they are in secondary perhaps I will be able to send them, but I'm not sure its realistic.

Precisely because we send out children to private school is why we cannot afford to fly BC and ski at top resorts in Europe!!!!!!!!!!

I work across Yorkshire and the North West… I advise at least 10-15 businesses a year on multi-million (£10m+) sales and have a North West target list of another 200 privately held companies all with cash reserves of more than £5m (and it’s not an exhaustive list of large privately owned businesses in the region).

I grew up very poor and went to state school, then did a PhD at a good university. But there is absolutely no way for me to catch up with someone who had £20k worth of piano tuition before they even reached 18. Or who had three ballet lessons per week from the age of 5. I’m never going to match their level of expertise, which will benefit them for the rest of their lives. And I can tell you for sure that my peers who went to private school are doing better than me - because while I was fighting for jobs (and often not getting them), they were being handed opportunities by Daddy and his friends.

I do think this is a very common attitude among the lower classes though. “The value of education is solely to get you into university and get a job”. That’s literally one of the main things that holds back people from poor backgrounds. They lack a wider appreciation of education for its own sake, mostly because they haven’t had the opportunity to get any education beyond the academic schooling provided by the state.

a lot of owners of local large privately owned businesses send their children to private school. A lot of those kids go on to work in the business. Also, the ones who’s end their kids to private school have a playground network and we often work with their kids’ friends’ parents via playground intros.

Nothing to do with private schools though. That would have happened even if they had all gone to a state school.
Parents give jobs to their dcs in their company - nothing new.
Friends get intro to jobs through their friends.

The commonality here is the fact some parents have done very well fir themselves and are using that to support others. Like their own family and their dc friends they’ve known since primary.