Don't worry about affording private school. My experiences as a mature uni student have convinced me private school is a waste of money.

[Joffmognum]

For context: I didn't go to uni at the usual time - I was a teenage mum, didn't do A-Levels, dropped out of school and had DS unplanned aged 18. Working class, worked minimum wage jobs, rented a room, toddler and I shared one bed, etc. I was well into my twenties before I had £1000 to my name. But I decided that I wanted to go to university anyway, so, with a lot of hard work, and after waiting for DS to grow up a bit, I did. I'm now 26 and almost done with an engineering integrated masters degree at a very nice, top 10 university.

I've since befriended a lot of other students who went to private schools, including boarding schools. And they're VERY aware that their parents spent £100k+ on an education that meant they "could go" to a university like ours - which gives them A LOT of pressure - but they're going to the same place I am? Which I managed to get into with a young child to care for, an underfunded state college course, and not quite enough food in the fridge?

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Like, if they have the drive to go to a nice university, they will anyway? And if they can't get the appropriate grades on a state-level education, they'll find it very difficult once they're there?

There's so much depression, anxiety and stress amongst students these days. I adore university and the technical internships I've done through it, but among the private school kids especially, their hearts often don't seem in it, like they're doing it because of inertia.

One told me recently that the reason he works so hard for firsts is because he can't face telling his dad he got low grades, because he knows how expensive his boarding school was. Another confided in me today that he doesn't actually want to be an automotive engineer: he'd rather be a mechanic.

Yep totally agree with many other PPs. From my experience, one of the main results of private education is the innate confidence.

But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

You misunderstand the reason why many people, in my personal experience, send their DC to private school. I don't know of any other parent in my DC's reception class for example who's remotely considered university prospects.

For me personally, I chose our local independent school because I knew the smaller class sizes would suit my DS's personality type and learning needs much better, and he's already thriving.

Couldn't care less if he goes on to be an engineer or a mechanic or anything in between.

I tend to agree. I know a lot of ex private school people doing very ordinary jobs. It’s hard to see the benefit from the costly education.

I also know a private school teacher who doesn’t read her pupils homework as she ‘doesn’t have time’ so she just gives them the same grade each time. So I’m not even convinced they get the best teachers.

If it’s cheaper to go private than move to the catchment of a good state school, then sure. Or if you want an ‘alternative’ education system. But otherwise I am not convinced of the benefit.

I have a cousin who was sent to private school. She works full-time in a supermarket now. Good for her. Her parents have despaired and asked why. She says she’s happy in a low-stress job. People are who they are.

I did not choose private school because I was thinking about university. I chose it because my son with a range of additional needs (ASD, adhd, dyspraxia, anxiety, tourettes, and low cognitive function) was being so severely failed by both the state schools he went to that choosing a school that had near 30% SEN, a large and supportive SEN team and incredible pastoral care may well mean the difference between him being a vaguely functioning member of society and quite possibly tragedy considering he was already self harming to a major extent.

One of the tropes is that all of us rich, privileged private school parents are social climbers and looking for a leg up. We downszied our house and i got a second job to afford it.

And it is worth it to me. And I am so so tired of being told we are all thick rich bastards.

@Zone2NorthLondon

"Always able to establish who else is private school and where they attended."

Yes, mainly because they don't shut the fuck up about it, yawn.

Now that some of us state educated plebs* are getting to the top I can tell you such ego and arrogance are noted (and not in a good way). Counts for nothng with me and many others when I'm making recruitment and promotion decisions.

*I got in Oxbriidge off the back of my own endeavours and have worked in the City for 25 years. My own DC are state school educated.

I just wanted to say 🙌🏽 OP, go you!

I went to Cambridge from state school and my school exam results were better than many of my private school peers. However, it was immediately very clear to me that the calibre of education they received, as well as an environment which fostered innate self-confidence, was streets ahead of what I received in the state sector.

It's extremely easy to pass exams if you have the motivation to do it and approach it methodologically. But we should value education for education's sake and try to ensure a real breadth and depth of learning. The state sector just can't do this.

Also, looking at you example, sending children to school is really not worth it. If they want to, your example shows that they can “just” get their education as adults. Let them drop out whenever they want to. Doesn’t sound right?
What you have done is great, but very unusual. In the absolute majority of children and school drop outs it doesn’t work out like that.

Well done OP good for you. You do realise you are in a tiny minority of teenage mums who went to university let alone a very good one to do an engineering degree? Is that maybe one of the reasons you got in?
to draw from your anecdotal experience to generic assumptions about private schools and what can be achieved despite difficult circumstances is wrong. But I assume you know this and just want to make a point that you have achieved just us much.

I find this thread really depressing for some reason.

Probably on reflection because it just serves to reiterate that the gulf between the haves and the have nots is ever wider.

Anecdotally i can attest it can be hard to tell - Dh and I both state educated but socialised and worked in City with largely ex public school cohort (hopefully this has changed) and it was always assumed we were both privately educated too. Some were visibly shocked if it came out that we weren’t.

Led to some awkward situations actually as people would assume they were “amongst friends” and some would say pretty awful things about state educated people in front of us (knife wielding was a favourite).

Dd2 is currently at a very good state but socialises with the private school set and has the same. She attended her best friends mothers lunch for the parents at her other child’s public school at the weekend and again the parents baffled when they asked where dd2 at school “not heard of that one darling” 😀😀

I don't think most people send their kids to private school "so that they get into a good university".

I have one in private secondary and one in state secondary. I am paying for the private school because it is hands down a better school. It is calmer, has nicer facilities, the staff expect more from the kids, the staff communicate with the kids in a infinitely more positive way, better food, broader curriculum, better school trips ....

I'm sure there are state schools that could match our private school (the state school I went to 25 years ago was certainly comparable), but those schools are not an option for my kids because of where we live. So I am happy to pay for private schooling for my kids if they a) want to go to the private school and b) can secure a place (selective).

I'm not hoping to buy a better place at university. I hope I am buying a broader, more positive, education experience NOW and as a consequence, a more capable, confident, wide-ranging approach to life for my child in adulthood. The now is the most important bit though.

I went to state school, I'm old enough that I got a grant for a couple of my Uni years, and worked the rest - I specifically chose my course because I grew up with no money, and wanted one where I would get out and be able to reliably earn decently (IT)

I earn earn enough now to send my kids private. I don't do it to get them into Uni, but because of small class sizes, individual care, a broader curriculum where it's noticed and worked on if kids are struggling (it's a good private school, not one that dumps kids that have special needs or don't achieve). They do sport with facilities I couldn't have dreamed of, everything works in their science lab, and they have a bloody kiln in art class. The food is amazing (no chip butty for lunch for them!)

Every step I took since I first had to choose exams was to get to the point where my kids wouldn't have to struggle quite so much (yes, I'm sure it's character building, but I'll give mine the leg up thanks)

Congratulations on your achievements OP.
I'm not sure why you needed to go from your achievements to generalised comments about other people's educations though.

Most people I know who chose to use private schools weren't doing it to get the right university. They did it because they felt the quality of education and overall experience was suitable for their children.

But how do you know that those privately educated students would have ended up at the same top-10 uni if they’d have gone to state school? If they’d have gone to somewhere bog-standard they might be at a less prestigious uni or not at uni.

Plus, most MN'ers are here because we care.

Ds1 at Uni May be a bit young to be able to answer the question yet. But I'll ask him when I next see him : does he feel he's missed out?

I think what this tread shows is in which desperate state the uk school system is. Preparing children for the options best suited to them is a minimum requirement, not an achievement. A clever, motivated child going to a top university should be a given. That it isn’t is hugely problematic.
Education is much more than fulfilling minimum requirements though. it is about a broader view of the world, appreciating arts, technology, sport, politics, ….

If you care, are interested in your child generally, can afford to move to somewhere that has decent schools rather than failing, if a large % of your 6th form go to very good uni's, then surely that's good enough?

It’s not true though, the greatest benefit is the social circle.

I am very academic, top of my class, has won medals in my profession for top marks in professional exams.

My profession is probably 50:50 private school to state school. The private school attendees win lots of clients from “my school friends dad” and have a much stronger social network to win work. I have nothing. Nobody I grew up with could afford (or need) my services. For me, THAT is the differenxe

only anyone who hasn’t been to private school thinks this

the “networking” argument is only applicable to the very very top tier private schools

the vast majority - Nope

i don’t think you have made a strong argument here OP.

You dropped out of school and therefore e didn’t have a levels. You worked low paid jobs and then pushed yourself to go to university as a mature student; met a handful of people who went to private school and based on some conversations are now advising people that private school isn’t worth the money.

It’s great you made it to university, mature students often have lower entry requirements. So is you advice don’t bother working at school, take a few years out then try again in your mid twenties? Therefore a level results are less important so you don’t have to go to a good school?

what evidence have you considered before coming to this conclusion?

LolaSmiles · Today 07:03

Congratulations on your achievements OP.
I'm not sure why you needed to go from your achievements to generalised comments about other people's educations though.

It was an opportunity for the OP to boast and have a go at ghastly poshos - two birds with one stone.

I dont send my children to private schools so that they can get into top universities. I send them to private schools because I want them to have a more gentle, more enjoyable school experience with all of the enrichment opportunities that private schools offer.

I think most parents are aware that 70% of oxbridge students are state educated. If their main focus was a top university then state school with lots of extra tutoring would be the obvious strategy.

I went to an average state school, went to Uni, got an undergrad and a postgrad degree, got into a graduate programme and now do very well for myself. Well done me. But I hated every minute of my state school, was bullied relentlessly for what I wore (no uniform policy) and wasn't inspired or focused on in anyway. No opportunity for sports.
I'm sending my kids private not just to get good grades...