Don't worry about affording private school. My experiences as a mature uni student have convinced me private school is a waste of money.

[Joffmognum]

For context: I didn't go to uni at the usual time - I was a teenage mum, didn't do A-Levels, dropped out of school and had DS unplanned aged 18. Working class, worked minimum wage jobs, rented a room, toddler and I shared one bed, etc. I was well into my twenties before I had £1000 to my name. But I decided that I wanted to go to university anyway, so, with a lot of hard work, and after waiting for DS to grow up a bit, I did. I'm now 26 and almost done with an engineering integrated masters degree at a very nice, top 10 university.

I've since befriended a lot of other students who went to private schools, including boarding schools. And they're VERY aware that their parents spent £100k+ on an education that meant they "could go" to a university like ours - which gives them A LOT of pressure - but they're going to the same place I am? Which I managed to get into with a young child to care for, an underfunded state college course, and not quite enough food in the fridge?

If you have a lot of cash to spare, then I understand paying the fees. But if you're paying for private school primarily so your kid will get into a nice university, it almost seems like a waste of money to me?

Like, if they have the drive to go to a nice university, they will anyway? And if they can't get the appropriate grades on a state-level education, they'll find it very difficult once they're there?

There's so much depression, anxiety and stress amongst students these days. I adore university and the technical internships I've done through it, but among the private school kids especially, their hearts often don't seem in it, like they're doing it because of inertia.

One told me recently that the reason he works so hard for firsts is because he can't face telling his dad he got low grades, because he knows how expensive his boarding school was. Another confided in me today that he doesn't actually want to be an automotive engineer: he'd rather be a mechanic.

the middle classes can use good state school as a leverage and have the disposable income (from not paying fees?) to buy advantages. Family background drives expectation, boundaries and experiences of course that shapes. But unfortunately good state and grammar school are inaccessible to the working classes. These schools eg QE boys pretty much copy the private school model,and QE will ask pupils to leave of grade average drops

Some of these comments are naive in the extreme.

People send their kids to private school to give them further social advantage and connection. It's not a coincidence that private school educated people dominate "top" jobs. The class system is alive and well in he UK no matter how much people want to believe it isn't.

I would much rather send my DD to a state school, but we have only one option and it’s not good (bad Ofsted). I’m not bothered about the university thing; but DD is desperate to learn Latin, Greek, mandarin and ancient history, and is really gifted at Maths. They don’t offer Latin, Greek or extension maths at our catchment school. There are some things the state sector just don’t offer. That’s why we’re considering private. I really wanted to learn Latin and wasn’t able to at my comprehensive. I’d like my daughter to be able to.

Agree. I chose private school to buy potential advantage and the smaller class size,facilities etc
UK is class bound and it is a prominent feature of our culture
Op has done really well but is inaccurate in her heartfelt but crushingingly naive comments

PinkRoses1245 · Yesterday 22:50
Exactly this. Total waste of money. Although most people I meet outside work who went to private school are not nice people. Gives such a sense of entitlement. And it just seems to be pushy parents making up for their own lack of success by projecting onto their kids

What a spiteful comment. How would you feel if someone said ‘most state educated people go around in hoodies swearing and throwing chairs’?
Anyway, since you dislike privately educated people so much can you not avoid meeting them outside work? (I bet they dread you too).

This post is so well written and the observations are so astute!

@PinkRoses1245 Exactly this. Total waste of money. Although most people I meet outside work who went to private school are not nice people. Gives such a sense of entitlement. And it just seems to be pushy parents making up for their own lack of success by projecting onto their kids.

Sweeping generalisations always make for ill-informed comment. Without knowing the alternative schools available or the specific needs of each child, you cannot judge. In many cases, including most of those paid for by local authorities, independent schools are outstanding value.

As for those 'who went to private school are not nice people', your experience is a shame. Most of the privately educated people I know are lovely.

I make an exception for a few of our better known politicians 🙂

Immersed in what? A privately educated doctor hasn't grown up more immersed in the behaviour and language of the job than a state educated doctor.

You would not know, on meeting a doctor, in or out of their professional role, whether they were state or privately educated.

This is such rubbish, and such a source of prejudice and discrimination, the wat some people think they can guess who is privately educated and treat them accordingly.

I have good friends who are English teachers, who are regularly treated so dismissively and with such contempt by people who think their accent and demeanour marks them out as privately educated, when they were actually both state educated. I think because they are a couple, people make that assumption more than they would if they were both individuals. They have names classed as "upper class" by some, and are well spoken. Many people are like that individually, without people thinking the worst of them, but working and socialising together, they get this discrimination all the time

OP you’ve managed something fantastic but not all working class women in your situation would be able to achieve the same. It is your personal characteristics, your attitude, your intellect and likely also the environment you were raised in that has made you so driven to overcome a challenging hand.

I’m working class, went to same university as many privately educated students (many of whom went there though clearing). It isn’t just about the grades and you’ll begin to notice more privileges that private school offers. A very small percentage of my school went to university, the few that did are all in different sectors - there is no in-built professional network. In a male dominated sector, with a state school background you will start to notice this. Your male, privately educated counterparts will have access to a pre-made network and doors will open for them that they don’t for you.

I don’t necessarily agree with private schools but what the middle class who are against private schools don’t (won’t?) realise is that they pay for the privilege of an education too. They move to good catchments for state schools, perhaps tutor their children if they need it. They are more likely to engage with the school, using their professional expertise to help arrange fundraisers for the school. They encourage their children to read and take them on educational days out. It all fosters a better learning environment throughout the school. My school wasn’t that bad but middle class, state educated people are horrified at what went on in my school. Even if you don’t send your son to private school, you will still likely use your higher income now to move to good school catchment for your son.

Education matters. There are some working class kids that will fall through the cracks in a state school. There are some working class kids that thrive in a state school and go on to do amazing things. The difference is, middle class parents that can even scrimp and save tuition fees have the option of seeing their kid falling through the cracks and doing something about it. They might not come out with the best grades from private school but considering the alternative where they have fallen through the cracks of a state school system - their grades are almost certainly better, their friend group is almost certainly less likely to be in trouble.

As for the rude poster who said maybe if OP had been privately educated, she wouldn’t have been pregnant at 18. This is exactly the attitude that people are talking about when they say you can tell who has been to private school. It’s a disgusting attitude that assumes because your parents were able to buy you a privilege that you can now look down on people. Not all ex-private school students have this attitude, most are quite pleasant but there that have a really horrible attitude because of their privilege and it seeps into every area of their life. For what it’s worth, my sixth form had a fairly even split of private, state and the selective catholic school. There were girls from all three that had abortions, so teenage pregnancy exists regardless of how much you pay to educate your child. However, the only girls still in education were those that had abortions rather than continuing with the pregnancy.

You’ve worked very hard to turn things around. However, you anecdata is as meaningless as me saying that had you been sent to private school, you pfobebly wouldn’t have had anything to turn around in the first place.

@MollyMarples

Spoilt for choice 😆I went to one of those failing schools, and I'd have loved to go to a private - so if you're struggling but managing to get your child/ children through a private school, I really feel it's worth it actually.

Private schools vary from good to bad in the same way that state schools do. The difference is that parents can choose which private school to send their child to. Most private schools are mixed ability and many are special schools. There are a high number of international students who are there to improve their life chances by getting an English education. The daily mail Eton narrative does not reflect the reality but it is much more fun to read about.

My kids go to/went to a state school, but if I had a child starting secondary now, I would send them to private school.

Our state school is in a decent area and is rated good by ofsted. The level of disruption, lack of teachers, worsening pastoral care, limited and decreasing other opportunities etc means that it's not a great environment for children to reach their potential.

My son is at a good Uni and my daughter is still at state school and predicted good grades but it's about so much more than that. State schools aren't providing a good all round experience, they're not supporting children and many children are failed completely. My daughter has autism and their treatment if her has been disgusting, which I hear from other parents of children with ND at state school.

My friends children's experience at private school is very different. Smaller class sizes, effective teaching, less disruption, better opportunities, great pastoral care etc.

Totally agree. My experience is v similar to yours. A lot of kids as so called top schools have also been cosseted and spoon fed to the point that when they go to uni and have to motivate themselves, they don't know how. I've known bright kids from very highly rated private schools get thirds because they just couldn't make themselves work without someone standing over them.

We moved our Daughter to private because the state school system was not acknowledging her mild Sen and she had severe anxiety about school. She passed her 11 plus for grammar so is capable of getting into uni but we don’t care if she goes to uni or not - let alone a good one. We just want her to be happy.

My son however who stayed in the state school system in a grammar is on track to go to uni having got all 9s and 8s in his GCSEs.

Congrats on your achievements but my own experience of uni was the critical thinking I was taught so I could approach issues in a logical way - I assume you were the same? If yes then you would know some random conversations with your uni buddies are not a good foundation as to reasons why random strangers on the internet would change their schooling plans for their kids.

I actually suspect what you are trying to achieve is a credit for how hard you have worked under difficult circumstances to get where you are today - and you have and you do deserve credit so well done. But deep down you know that statistically many people in your circumstance might have not been able to achieve what you achieved.

mumsnet is very supportive of people - you just could have said look what I achieved and you would have been flooded with praise - and not triggered private school parents to point out your flawed approach to the development of your opinion you think we should hold credit to.

All the study Op

and yet you remain as daft and narrow minded as ever

You should be the Cover Girl for promoting private education OP

Parents do not choose private schools to get their children info university op. 🙄

I think the part of the picture that op is failing to see is the issue of educational capital. Yes op has done well against the odds and made it to a top university. If you lined ten people similar to op up with her socio economic situation only she would make it. If you lined ten people up educated at private school then probably six would make it. Why? Because of educational and social capital afforded to them.

I'm not a fan of private schools, but I don't think people necessarily pay for them to get kids into good unis, it's more general confidence and connections. I can generally spot former public schoolboys (less so women) as they just seem to be able to feel comfortable anywhere, and I don't just mean upmarket places. Maybe that effect isn't so common in younger public school guys, I don't know. But it seems to give people the confidence to feel they belong in places that are powerful and influential, that you seldom see in other people. Which has had some unfortunate consequences for UK politics!

I went to a state grammar that had one of the best exam results in the country and while it produced many very smart people, you still didn't get that public-school confidence.

I’m not paying fees for the university outcome. If DS went to the local comp the offer from a top 10 uni is one whole grade less x3 than his private school (as the comp is on the list of “aspiring” schools).

I’m paying for the smaller classes and lack of police presence and metal detectors at the school gate which mean that with his myriad disabilities he should be able to finish school and sit exams in the first place.

thats a very narrow view about why people send to private.

our reasons are smaller classes and better facilities. My DH’s state school didn’t even have a field to do sports on.

What you forget is that many kids in private schools are not neurotypical. I my son’s current- mainstream - private it is about 15 out of 24 per class. I.ln his - also mainstream, but specialised - likey secondary school, it will be 100%. None of these kids would even get GCSEs in the state sector (which is why parents pay fees the can‘t really afford, or go through the pain of getting EHC to have them as nominated schools).
Yes, your neurotypical, clever but not too clever kid will do well in a decent state school.
Also, academics are often not the decisive factor. My youngest has no SENDs. Academically he would be fine in the state sector. He lives for performing arts though, and - at least in our neighbouring schools - offers in the arts are desperate. School should br so much mire than academics. I‘m ok with average academics, what i pay for in his case is an education that goes beyond that, that inspires him, stretches him and that he loves.

I agree and disagree. I can often spot a privately educated person a mile off! But only a small % are privately educated obviously.

Plus there are plenty of good schools around. Ds1 at Uni has now met loads of privately educated. He says there's little difference.

If someone's parents are well off (state or private) they may well have had many experiences, eg skiing at top resorts in Europe, flying business class etc, that some children from not so wealthy families won't have experienced.