Epsom College tragedy

[Bambala]

I was horrified to read the story about the headteacher and family dying this morning, this poor family and I can't stop thinking about how the children at school must feel learning about this tragedy. I am sure the staff there are being brilliant at supporting them. I remember hearing that my old headteacher had died after I left school and even then being really shocked and upset.

Heartbreaking to see all the tributes to Emma Pattison, what a loss for the school community and the world. Her daughter looked like such an angel as well.
I wish the tabloids abstained from spreading rumours but at the same time, it would be good for Surrey Police to give another update if they know more rather than rumours being leaked to the press.
The rifle range is indeed located next to the Headmaster's house along with the sports complex so there is nothing to read from the fact that the whole area is cordoned off. One of the newsreports stated that there is absolutely no live ammunition on the range.

@LexMitior agree. I feel a bit like I did the day Jo Cox was killed - like the world has lost someone it really needed.

No guns don’t belong in any school. Bit of double standards re private/state going on here. Such a tragedy.

There is another article in the news about a woman and 3 children being stabbed, and the woman has been arrested for attempted murder. So it isn't always men, but maybe when men do it they more likely end up killing their victims. Maybe women don't have the strength, either physically or emotionally, to take it through to the bitter end

You can use someone else’s firearm on private property in their presence without a licence. Also children can have licences in U.K.

@picklemewalnuts exactly. I keep thinking about the international boarders and their parents. So scary to be away from home when the place that is your home feels like it has been violated. At my school there were a fair few international boarders and I used to feel for them at exeat weekends and the like but to go through this is a whole other level of being away from your family.

It has already been pointed out that murder suicide of a family is overwhelmingly a male crime. So too is murder. Perhaps we could all just accept that, rather than pretending otherwise.

Women often fear to leave the children with the father.
Men's motivations tend to be different.

Not speculating on this case, just replying to a general comment.

Mumsnet said on the last thread that it was fine to discuss the case.

We understand that people want to discuss this tragic story and are fine to have threads running about it. However, this thread has descended into a bit of an exchange of insults now so we've removed it.

If you don't want to read about it, just hide the thread and move on.

The fact his name is last, the comments about how amazing she was, the condolences to her loved ones, the Police might as well be as clear as the Press seem to be making it.

Utterly tragic and horrific. Because even if it is what it seems, its, amongst other things, tragic that that was felt by one to be the only answer

I don't agree with this. I think it's because of where the incident took place, and the fact she has the more newsworthy job i.e. first female head of one of the best independent schools vs. he who sounds equally high achieving but less individual IYSWIM.

I did wonder how people would feel if local comprehensives in their area started keeping guns for pupils to use in extra-curricular activities?

But all the press reports say gunshots were heard...? At 1.30am. Difficult not to draw an inference from that.

God it's just so tragic on every level isn't it. If it is what it appears to be, why don't these males just walk away instead.

As for posters saying it's awful to discuss, that's human nature to try and make sense of dreadful incidents which seemingly happen out of the blue. Just too sad.

I know a woman who, during a period of tremendous pressure and suffering heavy depression and vulnerability (and going through divorce from someone hostile) confided that she had had moments where she understood why parents of children do these things. She felt suicidal herself and could see how someone would want to spare their kids that horror.

Thank you.

It's when posters start arguing about shite, that's what gets the threads deleted.

Even PGL offer rifle shooting (and archery) to primary-aged children and above. I’m pretty sure they don’t distinguish between those from state vs. private schools. My own father learned marksmanship at his state grammar school many moons ago.

Anyway - the news from Epsom is horrifying. It was confirmed on BBC 1pm news that it was a crime scene, not an accident investigation. My thoughts are with all those affected.

There have been quite a few murder/suicide cases in the UK where it turned out the dad had massive secret debts. In this case the mum had a good job with a house provided, so I really hope that money isn't the reason here, because that would be such a terrible waste of life.

I didn't say guns at PGL, I said guns kept at their local comprehensive school.

There will be massive safeguarding implications here.

Not because anyone necessarily did something wrong, but to see whether there were opportunities to spot the problem earlier, and to see whether pupils were in any way put at risk.

Are you suggesting that PGL are using live ammunition with primary school children? Not air rifles?

No, I haven’t suggested anything of the sort.

Well, you said that PGL offer "rifle shooting" - rather than "air guns" which is a very different thing. Most people refer to "rifle shooting" when they are using firearms not air weapons - especially in the context of this thread

Which poster?

This is someone I know in real life.

Her kids were and are fine and she was never tempted to act on it but just said she got an insight into the dark places your mind can go. It was something she’d found as incomprehensible as anyone until suffering with fairly severe depression for a (thankfully) short period.

I think it’s obvious that anyone who could go through with this or any type of suicide is suffering from disordered thinking.

I’m not suggesting how or what anyone should think about those suffering from depression or experiencing suicidal ideation. And I’m not commenting on the Epsom College incident in particular.

Suicidal people are not kept away from others. Odd comment.

Depression and suicidal thoughts are actually incredibly common and quite often no one would know apart from the person experiencing them. When it is known - eg by a doctor or family members - suicidal people are not kept away from others. Where do you think they are kept?