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Original poster

Epsom College tragedy

543 replies

Bambala · 06/02/2023 09:46

I was horrified to read the story about the headteacher and family dying this morning, this poor family and I can't stop thinking about how the children at school must feel learning about this tragedy. I am sure the staff there are being brilliant at supporting them. I remember hearing that my old headteacher had died after I left school and even then being really shocked and upset.

OP posts:
Shampern · 06/02/2023 20:33

Xenia · 06/02/2023 20:07

In this type of family annihilation and given a gun is in play I suspect the father did it but I am sure things like blood splatter patterns will make all that clear from the scene and we will find what did happen in due course. It does not sound like they think an intruder did it so presumably have some evidence for that.

It is so sad when this happens? Why can't people planning this just do themselves in and leave the family out of it?

That is correct. But unless you are a designated keyholder, employed by the school, you would not have access. Unless something has gone drastically wrong with security.

BlueHeelers · 06/02/2023 20:34

Bambala · 06/02/2023 11:41

@BlueHeelers I was thinking to myself how the press would have reported it had it been a head of a run down comp somewhere. Less sensationalist? Or more? "Head of school in special measures has been found dead at home with her family. Questions being asked by local community as to why there were guns kept at school."

Well, quite @Bambala

goodbyestranger · 06/02/2023 20:39

This is a ludicrous argument for no purpose. It's bound to be the case that the husband shot both the small child and his wife. And why are people jostling for position about 'connections'? That's weird (and yes, I do also have close connections to both schools: attended one for eleven years and spent all my teenage weekends in the other - doesn't mean I have more sensibility to the horrendous situation than anyone else). This grabbing of proximity to tragedy is pretty grim. Guns have a place in society? Not with the crazy lax attitude of those responsible for dishing out licences, if the ongoing Plymouth shootings inquest is anything to go by. The whole thing is a farce.

goodbyestranger · 06/02/2023 20:40

Unless something has gone drastically wrong with security

Things go drastically wrong all the time.

toomuchlaundry · 06/02/2023 20:46

I would assume the HT would be more able to get to the rifles than the husband

XelaM · 06/02/2023 23:07

LexMitior · 06/02/2023 15:50

@taperjogger - let me put it more bluntly.

Would you, as a parent, leave your children in the care of someone who had suicidal feelings?

This is question the authorities would ask you. It is a question that has to be addressed for the safety of children. Feeling suicidal is not some sort of thing you turn on and off.

How do you know when someone has suicidal feelings?!?!? Very rarely will anyone share those thoughts out loud and even rarer will it get to the attention of any authorities. You could be talking to someone every day and not know what goes on in their head

mrcE1 · 06/02/2023 23:47

LexMitior · 06/02/2023 15:58

Well, I'll just say that suicidal people are, on balance, dangerous to others, for obvious reasons. I do understand that mild depression can engage some of these thoughts, but with severe depression, the risk can be sufficient that you may not see your children or you have to be supervised. Because the risk can be significant.

I can’t help feeling that you have no direct control experience of people who are suicidal or experiencing feelings of suicidal ideation.

There are more than six times as many suicides in the UK each year (1000 vs 6-7000). And the proportion of murder suicides is relatively low, at around 23 per year on average. The sense of devastation. These crimes cause should not be underestimated. But it should also be clear that a predilection to violence, and substance abuse, are more likely red flags than suicidal ideation/feelings of suicide. Of course adult support is invaluable at times like this, but I have seen contact with a young child help give someone the vitality that underpins living.

Finally, you and others may want to check the Samaritan guidelines. media.samaritans.org/documents/Media_Guidelines_FINAL.pdf

PighillJamie · 07/02/2023 00:35

Unikeko · 06/02/2023 10:22

CO= carbon monoxide
CO² = carbon dioxide

If you have a carbon monoxide alarm now a is a good time to test it and make sure it's working. If you don't please consider getting one, it's a silent killer.

For the people commenting about Carbon Monoxide (CO) and Carbon Dioxide (CO2). You can die from both.

Carbon Monoxide gets you by poisonning you, displacing the oxygen carrying capabilities of your red blood cells and is typically caused by faulty boilers or some form of combustion. Yes, you should have a Carbon Monoxide alarm in your house and test it regulary, and replace when the sensor has expired.

You can also die from Carbon Dioxide. In this occurrence, the cause is typically suffocation from the heavier Carbon Dioxide displacing the Oxygen in a confined space.

When we say confined space we mean any space or volume where the Carbon dioxide gas could build up. This could refer to anything from a building, sump well, ditch, cellar etc. and the source of the Carbon dioxide can vary from rotting vegetable matter, yeast, bottled gas leaking, to chalk stone and acid rain.

To give some examples people have been killed by Carbon dioxide suffocation by walking into barns used to store apples, working on motorway ditches, and pub cellars.

SweetBonanza · 07/02/2023 00:54

The BBC reporting on it earlier thus evening made me wonder. They showed an aerial shot if the school complex and said "The family's house can be seen in the middle of the school grounds. The indoor rifle range is just behind it"

I felt that was a strong hint. No mention of any of the other school facilities. They didn't say where the gymnasium or classrooms were in relation to the house. Just the rifle range.

Bikeybikeface · 07/02/2023 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

toomuchlaundry · 07/02/2023 09:19

The BBC are now saying the police say the rifle range is not part of the scene of the incident

ExtraLilt · 07/02/2023 09:51

About access to the armoury, typically only designated people would have access and it's unlikely a ht would just because of their job.

But if someone had a personal hunting rifle/shotgun then they would normally be able to store it there and less questions would be asked if they wanted to take it out

Original poster
Bambala · 07/02/2023 10:13

@ExtraLilt could someone keep a personal hunting shotgun on school premises though? It would seem unlikely the police would allow that with all those boarders?

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 07/02/2023 10:15

There's a headline in the sun spelling it out now. But I didn't click on it and can't see it anywhere else.

XelaM · 07/02/2023 10:19

Sorry to quote the Sun, but they have been reporting that police believe it was a murder/suicide by the father :(

XelaM · 07/02/2023 10:19

picklemewalnuts · 07/02/2023 10:15

There's a headline in the sun spelling it out now. But I didn't click on it and can't see it anywhere else.

Saw this too

picklemewalnuts · 07/02/2023 10:25

I hadn't realised how recently she'd started in the job, new job for him too, house move and so on. May have felt very pressured and 'on show', moving into a house on the school site. Can't have been easy.

I so feel for those having to manage the situation- the teachers on site, and pupils.

Original poster
Bambala · 07/02/2023 10:26

That poor woman and beautiful little girl.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/21299309/epsom-college-emma-pattison-double-murder-suicide/

OP posts:
DerangedViper · 07/02/2023 10:42

XelaM · 07/02/2023 10:19

Saw this too

Show quote history

Also now in The Telegraph

(not on Beeb yet)

mintdaisy · 07/02/2023 10:45

Breaking news on bbc news. So shocking.

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 07/02/2023 10:51

RIP to Emma and Lettie. Beyond tragic.

May the man who murdered them rot.

JanusTheFirst · 07/02/2023 10:53

www.thesun.co.uk/news/21299309/epsom-college-emma-pattison-double-murder-suicide/

Why do men kill their families?

illtakeit · 07/02/2023 10:54

Yeah it’s basically everywhere now and all news outlets are reporting the same. Murder/suicide. This is just so sad all around.

I just wish he’d just walk away. I’m so angry!

It just makes me wonder if N didn’t see any signs at all? It had to be premeditated. So many things going through my mind right now.

And that poor little girl 😭😭😭

WinterAconite · 07/02/2023 11:01

In the podcast Emma did she says "my husband got a new job. That wasn't supposed to happen but it did" then stumbles over her words a bit. I wondered if he had lost a job and then pretended to get a new one or something.

GobblingGyozas · 07/02/2023 11:04

Even though it's what I assumed would be the case, it's still so upsetting to hear. My heart goes out to everyone who knew them.