Uni Student DDs bombshell

[cantdecidewhattodo123]

Looking for some perspective please, DD 21 & 23 are at Uni ( not in UK) . They live in a flat together owned by me and I pay for bills, fees and weekly allowance. So fairly cushy number and they can concentrate on study. Told me this week that in fact they failed exams years ago, have transferred to different courses/Uni and have been hiding it for years. They have cratered their education and wasted years but with hard work can still recover. But I am shocked - it’s so immature, like they believe it’s not important or can work out somehow magically. And they have taken money from me (that Ican afford) under false pretenses which I think is dishonest. They blame me for their failure which I know is just lashing out. I am really worried but what to do to help them?
If I stop supporting them to force them to face reality they may end up homeless or in trouble/debt and will probably drop out. But if I continue with status quo they can continue to lie, delude themselves this is somehow okay and may never get a qualification or a job. Any advice gratefully received!

That's a bit harsh

I agree Autumnisclose. These are two adults. When you think children at 12 years old were expected to work and support the family and these two layabouts. Words fail me. If they were mine they’d already be out on their ears with no further help of any sort. Nothing.

Let them know how hurt you are with their terrible 4 year deception.
Ask them what their plans are for the next year given that further education clearly isn’t for them. In other words, how do they plan to support themselves from now on ?
I would tell them that they have 12 months at a peppercorn rent starting from January 1st before your apartment goes on the open market for rental. Tell them that’s when all financial support for them ends. After a year they can then of course rent their home from you at market value if they are earning enough.
If not, they are on their own.
You need to turn the tap off.
And they need a sharp shock of reality.
Suggest that they each apply for a Christmas job in Migros while they think about their future.

Can they get student loans? Tell them to get student loans and a job to pay for living /maintenance.

My brother had friends at uni who did this, lied to their parents and kept taking money - it was mainly because they could, they knew their parents would never stop paying for them. They failed everyone.

You should 100% stop paying. Who cares if they don't get a degree - their choice - if you keep paying for them they're not going to magically start working, they'll just keep coasting and throwing it away because they know they can.

Maybe they just aren't cut out for degree level study? It's not for everyone. I can't imagine why anyone in such a comfortable situation wouldn't be able to make it past the first year.

Shock them. Tell them to come home, as you are going to rent out flat, and get jobs to support themselves. If they want to go to uni in UK, up to them to fund it themselves. They are taking you for granted.

i think it might happen more often than I thought. Because of Covid they got away with it for longer. I can understand how anyone can fail and then try to cover it up to avoid unpleasantness. I don’t know why they didn’t trust me enough to tell me sooner as I’ve always been there for them. But fair point that I have high academic expectations and maybe have been controlling. I will support them ( no more extras) until the Winter exams . If they pass then review continuation. Good idea to get access to their Uni account so that I can check. If they fail then support stops unless or until there is a new plan I accept. Thanks for all your advice

If 50% fail their first year, it’s possible that it’s your expectations they were worried about. Maybe they did try but couldn’t cut it and then just kept trying to paper over the cracks. In which case you have a pair of people pleasers that are terrified of disappointing others, to the point of constructing elaborate deceptions to avoid their failings being caught out.

You started off this thread saying ‘they just don’t care’ and ‘they live in an Instagram world’ but then, tellingly you also say ‘their self esteem is now on the floor’.

That to me sounds like they do care. I wouldn’t bother getting all butthurt over their lies…I’d be more concerned about why they felt they needed to lie to me instead of sharing what must have been a rough few years for them to destroy their self-esteem like that. Why on earth did they not feel like they could go to their own mother?

That is naughty, but if you throw in the financial towel now it’s all a waste. I’d say I’m flying out in one month to talk to their teachers. If the effort is not 100 and spotless they’re out. I would make regular connection with Uni and if effort falls they’re out end of. If they want it that bad they’ll keep it up.

I’d be annoyed too. At the start of year 3 my DS pretended to go to Uni. It didn’t take long to find out but he said he was worried I’d be disappointed, and I was as I’d got him back on his course after dropping out of his year abroad. But ultimately I told him it was his decision and if he regretted that in the future then that’s his fault. He does regret it, and he’s got the debt to repay.

You won’t be able to get access to any of their Uni stuff unless they approve, and I doubt they will want you seeing everything. I’d just ask to see the end of year grade as you should get that

They've been tossing it off for the past four years, living rent free and as if that wasn't enough they've had an allowance too

You've been taken for a mug and your kindness abused and thrown back in your face

It sounds as though they are both spoilt instagram Princess wannabes

To be my kids have and always will come first. My parents use to tell me unconditional love has no charge. If they were mine, I would want to know why they didn’t tell you as a problem shared is a problem halved. Not too late to work out a plan - factors to consider - are they in relationships, have you met partners etc, are they also living in the flat? I would say I was coming over to live in the flat and give them encouragement to get back on track with degrees. Is alcohol, drugs etc, nightclubs an addiction? I would explain they have another shot which they should grab with both hands as no-one is getting any younger, cost of living, high taxes etc are a problem even for those in a comfortable position and they need to gain independence. Good luck, you will get through to them eventually. Please don’t walk away, they have clearly had a very comfortable, safe life with strong parental support and to our kids we almost become a lifetime safety net/blanket and it must have deeply hurt them failing and knowing they have disappointed you. They just need help to get motivated again, as long as no outside influences are to blame.

This.
if they have spent so long not even getting past first year they are obviously unsuited or too indisciplined for uni life. They will never get degrees, the idea that they are going to pull all this back now is just an excuse to waste more money. You’re in the hole for £56,000 on fees alone and whatever else you have given them to support them. Their behaviour is contemptible and if I were you I wouldn’t give them another penny. So what if they end up homeless? They brought this on themselves and now they need to know that actions have consequences.

Apologies. Forgot that they weren’t at UK unis. Rest still applied though. Cut off the money, be brutal. Tough live is the only way forward.

I don’t know why they didn’t trust me enough to tell me sooner as I’ve always been there for them. But fair point that I have high academic expectations and maybe have been controlling.
You need to get to the bottom of this as a matter of urgency.

I will support them ( no more extras) until the Winter exams . If they pass then review continuation. Good idea to get access to their Uni account so that I can check. If they fail then support stops unless or until there is a new plan I accept.
This bit shows your true priority.
You touch on the real issue but rush on to thoughts of getting your daughters back on track.

Have you sped past other emotional issues in the past because you had some destination in mind that had to be reached?

I wouldn’t leave it a month. Call the welfare team at their uni. Are they even registered as students? Then I’d turn up on their doorstep (assume you have a key). Take afriend to support you, ideally a large, calm one. getto the bottom of what is happening.

personally, I’d turn off the tap. Maybe three months notice.

It doesn't matter how much money you have, it's YOURS, not theirs. This appalling, entitled behavior cannot continue. It is not assisting them in becoming the productive, responsible young women you want them to be.

How did you find out? Did they come to you, tell all and ask for help? If so, I might consider paying bare minimum living expenses and demanding official progress reports every 8 weeks.

If you found out via other means, cut them off. If they end up homeless, so be it. Let them grovel. It seems lessons in humility and gratitude are in order.

I think they both need a year out at work, supporting and paying their own way. They may like it and decide to stay working, or realise they need to go back to uni but to work, not f about. If they go back to uni, they should pay some of their costs, either from saving during their time at work or from part time work whilst studying.. They are not kids, they are adults and need to start acting their ages. They have squandered your very generous support, and need to look after themselves. A bit of tough love will do them good.

I’m really sorry but you did ask - they sound like deceitful, manipulative, entitled little *!! They are NOT children , they are adults in their 20s who have effectively stolen and lied. You say you are “ worried” about their mental health- but at the same time acknowledge they live in a fantasy insta world. Part of being a parent is knowing when to step back and encourage independence. You are facilitating and complicit in encouraging them to freeload, fail to commit and become/ develop self reliance. It’s absolutely not reasonable or realistic to expect that from an 18 year old - but FOUR YEARS LATER? Come on!! I think they know just how to push your buttons and you are not doing them any favours. Time for a harsh lesson. Am sure I will get slammed by some on here - but really their behaviour (and treatment of you) has been completely unacceptable.

Dear OP, very similar happened in our family and @mathanxiety has pretty much nailed it in her post:

"mathanxiety · Today 04:20
@cantdecidewhattodo123
Any plan you make should include family therapy with a view to finding out what went wrong, how it happened that they couldn't tell you what was going on.
I've seen this happen several times. In every case the children had very little trust in the parent's ability to handle academic disappointment, or the children had an overwhelming feeling that they had let their parents down and wished to spare them the disappointment - and spare themselves the wrath they felt was coming their way. In some of the children, there was the feeling that the parents had never seen them as themselves but had projected a lot of dreams and expectations onto them. A complete resetting of the relationships was necessary in every case."

We are three years on from discovering that our DS's entire year in Spain was in fact a bit of a jolly at our expense whereas we had thought he was in his third year of a course at King's College London.

What you can't know is what is going on in their heads. With them being two, it must be even more complicated unravelling the dynamics between them. They colluded together, after all.

I would be so hurt, as my DH and I were when we first found out, but years later our DS is wonderful and on the right path - he won't have a degree but he will have a pretty useful computer programming qualification and half of a chartered accountant's qualification. So not too bad!

None of my 5 children wasted their time going to university and only one went to college and only one won a scholarship to a public (private) school. They all left at 16 and all had mortgages by 19. By 23, one son had two homes (houses) and from then built up a portfolio of property both residential and commercial. All the others are still in their chosen careers having studied for qualifications whilst working. None have ever had parental handouts.
You are enabling them. If you want to see them flourish through their own efforts the stop all help. If they know you will always be the safety net then they are unlikely to make a concerted effort and you'll be underwriting them ad infinitum. Your choice.

Mathanxiety - I have spent my whole life speeding away from difficult emotional issues towards one goal or another . That’s very insightful.

Why are you and they not in the same country? I would be really worried that they are alone with each other and felt unable to talk to you or their father, or another person in a mentor position, about this.

I'd move the 3 of you into the same place so you can support them as they are struggling. Which is not uncommon post Covid and you can do very little from far away.

Either way you need to be either MORE involved for a while to parent them through this period OR so much LESS involved that you stop paying for everything and they stand on their own 2 feet.

It sounds as if they have been parenting each other without a real adult involved. Which is so very sad. Assuming they went to uni at 18 and they are now 21 and 22. You either need to parent them intensively to make up for lost time or back off (as you already have been) but withdraw the financial support.

I’m pretty sure both OP and the DDs are in Switzerland.