Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

The question at the top of the thread was actually asking for people's experiences of Steiner school- some of us have put our bad ones - with the reasons that underly that- my reasons being that imo it stems from anthroposophy guiding each and every choice made in the classroom; and some have put their good experiences- imo- ignoring the main rasons- but taking what they feel is good from it- and good on them. There are good things -Ive never disputed that. And I think if the schools existed without the Spiritual science bit- they'd be fab.

Someone said that Steiner produces well rounded beautiful people or something. I've met a lot of people who are wonderful- it was partly what attracted us in the first place. But I've also met a lot of people who have come through it extremely badly- damaged almost. As fee paying schools with generally small classes- it will attract a type of person who is bound to do well- alomng with such massive parental involvement. I'm not crticising this atall- but alot of people don't have this choice.

From a previous post:

Why don't they do the myths of Arthur and Merlin for instance in Wales? It wouldn't be that different from , say, the Norse Myths.

You answered your own question!

I'm inclined to put the same question a little differently:
Why are kids (and sometimes otherwise vulnerable people) throughout the world subjected to a cultural regime which emphasises a foreign culture and heritage that priviliges this foreign culture above their own.
During my seven year involvement with Anthro special needs, it was probably this aspect of cultural alienation that I questioned most, only to be met with more obfuscation, evasiveness and sometimes downright contempt than on any other questions. It was only following my breakout and discovering stuff on the internet that I started to find some answers.
I have used quite a lot of words here, so for readers who prefer to skim read:
Why does Anthroposophy try to Germanise all who come into contact?
This is my effort:- www.easeonline.org/Consciousness.htm
Davy

The people I've met who've left Steiner school quite often do architecture too- the ones who go on to do well. Any one got any ideas why? Any Steiner people- Stripey , Charlieand Lola? I had a theory it was because they were used to making their own text books- with all those detailed botany drawings etc- also that they're so used to long main lessons thst they don't mind the very long, detailed training. Is that a trite reason?
Also- Steiner people do always seem very very serious- there's not much room for fun and laughter I've found. After they've left too- a sort of continual reverence for everything all the time- they do talk about reverence and wonder alot.

lol I am about as unspiritual as they come. The closest I get to spirituality is nuclear physics, really...

I suppose I see Steiner schools as like pretty much any religious school. But, tbh, and speaking as a homeschooler-I don't see a vast difference between them and any other school.

Say the case of the crappy teacher. I remember a friend having a similar experience at school, bascially they refused to provide SEN support on the grounds that dyslexia is laziness, not an actual SEN. But instead of anthroposipha, it was just regular teachers, at one of the most highly rated London state schools, doing this. I think these problems are indicative of the limitations of teaching/schooling 20-30 kids in a class at one time, not really Steiner-ness.

I am really not trying to suggest that the bad experiences on her are not valid though, and I can also see that it might be a bit disturbing if you suddenly find out that there are all sorts of undercurrents there-I always knew that they were there.

I think I am reacting against the idea that there is any deep, Masonic-type cult going on here. I kind of think that some anthroposopha would LIKE there to be. But there really isn't, the secret upper echelons are mainly a bunch of slightly odd, slightly barmy, middle class grandparents.

Re the architecture-I dunno, I know Steienr architecture is very well renouned and the ideas underpinning it-harmony of mathematics and stuff-is taught throughout the school, so it may be simply that by leaving school, a proportion of kids have a real interest in it, but also a persepective which gets them onto the courses, gets them jobs, etc.

And hang on a second re the Arthurian legends- I am sure they study them. Just not til later in the school.

As I say, we have a very multicultural school/kindergarten and the kids do look at Islamic, pagan and whatever stuff. The deal is that if there is a child in the class from a particular religious tradition, or philosophy or whatever, that stuff will be incorporated, normally with help from the parents.

Schools do use different curriculum in different parts of the world also. I would be suprised if Steiner schools in Muslim countries are using Norse legends, though I might be wrong.

Ease put what I was trying to say far more eloquently- I really didn't put it well. I think there are any number of myths,legends and ancient history that would make a valid substitute for a child's learning- in any other situatuion- but Steiner is very precise about when the children learn partcular myths etc. It's to do with spiritual growth and I'm sure ther's somrthing about the child being able to recognise it's past lives- I mentioned this before and still haven't looked for the link- I will when I've time 'cos it's bugging me now.
There's also the fact that Steiner schols stick closely to Germanic folk lore- in part because steiner believed it to be superior.

Also- my kids have Jewish/Asian blood- there was nothing of that culture touched upon- except something in a main lesson book about peoples skin colour- pale and sandy like the desert, and dark like the soil of somewhere else.

The other thing that we questioned- and so did my kids- was that the teacher started every main lesson by saying- "Everything I'm telling you is true"- apparently very emphatically- and my daughter used to say- "but my Mum says these are stories"- and she used to get into trouble for this. Of course one of the accusations of Steiner is the - teaching myth as history- well - we did have first hand experience of this- and imo it's worse than creationism.

Have Stripy and Lush gone quiet?

It's interesting that just from the few people here, who have looked into Steiner, trailed the net, etc, etc,heard all of us ranting on, that they mostly seem to have opted out- or- more than that- been horrified at what they've discovered.

I really think this shows that the agenda is hidden. Their promotional literature is selective in the extreme- proved here by Cote, Michael Hall's prospectus, certainly the school we were at doesn't mention anything about the issues we've been discussing.

And it's time for it to open up.

Charlieand lola you said-

I suppose I see Steiner schools as like pretty much any religious school.

that's interesting- coming from your background of anthro etc- because the Steiner's we questioned were totally ADAMANT that it's not religious-used to get them quite heated- which I think, of course, is ridiculous- of course it's religious.

Must go- work to do.

"And hang on a second re the Arthurian legends- I am sure they study them. Just not til later in the school."

Hi CLM,
I beieve this to be entirely true, but it doesn't really address the question of cultural, or, if you prefer, national emphasis.
I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that what is taught is the German, Wolfram von Essenbach version rather than the English, Sir Thomas Mallory take, hence the emphasis on Parzifal (Percival, a minor character in the Mallory version) rather than on Galahad or Gawain.
Personally, I don't mind that others might not mind this, but I am a bit concerned that such information is made available in the first place.
That is all I attempt at the website page I referred to, and it is the sum total of any "agenda" I might have. It remains for individuals to make up their own minds as to why people adopting a similar stance to mine are so vilified by Anthroposophical commentators.
Davy

Stripey - I accept that I have been an idiot to consider enrolling DD in this Steiner school without an extensive research. You are a more intelligent person for never having done that.

Now that we are past that, let us come back to the real issue here - namely, that the school has hidden its religious/spiritual/whatever background and agenda from me and other parents who visited it. It has been dishonest about its curriculum (never mentioned morning prayer), vague about its methods (never mentioned aversion to vaccinations, medicine, etc), and did not say a word about the underlying religious doctrine.

This is the difference between Steiner schools and "any religious school". A Catholic school is called 'Catholic'. Even if you miss the hint, they tell you that your child will be expected to say a prayer or two, participate in Christian celebrations, etc.

Hi Cote - I agree- I seriously wish I'd asked more than the so called experts when we started our journey to Steiner Planet- I really do.
It just wasn't enough to visit several times, have meetings, ask questions, read two books recommended by them, go to an open day and have an official interview.
I'm still haunted with guilt about it.
But I must say- my children have suvived it pretty well. The veil lifted from them- they laugh about it now too.

"This is the difference between Steiner schools and "any religious school". A Catholic school is called 'Catholic'. Even if you miss the hint, they tell you that your child will be expected to say a prayer or two, participate in Christian celebrations, etc. "

Did the school really not tell you about this? Am actually by this.

All I can say is that this is NOT true of all schools, the ones I can think of post details of the morning prayer thingy, suggested occult readings for parents, etc etc, by the entrance. And if you ask the teachers why they do something, eg the advent spiral-the ONLY reason you might not get the full-bodied Steiner answer is that a lot of teachers are not anthroposophists, and thusly might not know.

I am only speaking about a few schools with which I am familiar. I am perfectly willing to accept that some schools are very different.

The thing is, I don't think this deception is at all PLANNED. Honestly, when you get right into it they are not unlike the People's Front of Judea

What they can be, and this really annoys me, is incredibly cliquey.

lol on the peoples front. but I have to disagree. They're no upfront in my experience,; I read somewhere in an Steiner magazine about how to attract more people, get more people on the path etc , that they should avoid too much mention of the "weird" stuff. Steiner himself said things along the same lines.
Anyway CharlieandLola- maybe all schools aren't like this- maybe there are some good ones out there- I'd like to think that - because there are some good -if misguided- people involved. And maybe I'm just an angry mum, expressing it here because the Steiner school go silent, freeze you out when you ask pertinant questions. And we still feel pretty bruised by it all.
We home educated for a bit- I really admire you for doing it. How old are your kids? Will you do it for ever?

As I keep saying, we can all only speak from our own experience. What some posters are describing is absolutely nothing like what I have experience of.

The school I am involved with is very upfront about Anthroposophy etc. I really don't know how you could miss it, they are not in the slightest secretive about any aspects of the philosophy behind the education. The weekly newsletter carries dates of talks on Anthroposophy, news of books published, 'inspirational' sayings and so on. Parents are also required to sign a Home-School Agreement, to the effect that they understand, and will support, the school's aims and ideas. Children entering Class One or above see the School Doctor, who does explain the Anthro feelings on childhood illness, homoeopathy etc. But I accept that other posters may have had different experiences at different schools.

I am not the sort of Steiner parent that tells others that it is some kind of idyllic education. If asked, I tell the truth (as I see it), which is that it depends very much on the school, that it is not necessarily suitable for hippy drippy types who like the idea of lots of art and music, that it is not the same thing as a Free School, that there are some odd beliefs floating around, that parental support and input is usually required, and so on...

The schools can indeed be 'cliquey' which must be very offputting to parents who are new to the school. I suspect thats the same for all private schools though.

Sorry CharlieandLolasmummy - I think cliquey isn't strong enough a word to use. During our time at the school, we were actively encouraged to only have our children play with other steiner children to actively support the ethos of the school and it's community.

Since leaving the school we still live close by and have come under the most incredible scrutiny - tv/no tv, vaccinations, the provenance of the food we have offered their children, the clothes we wear, the car we drive - what fuel we use in the car.... our very existence threatens them as they want to create a steiner community and we are one of the few non-steiner families left here. We are being bullied out of our home.

I believe what steiner is today is downright pernicious, it's extremism.
It's a cult.

again, totally agree with stripeys last post. well put.
the experience northern and cote have had are worlds apart from mine. (easeonline, I feel a little suspicious of.)
rantmum, go along and decide for yourself, as I have said, you will have a much better idea when you start talking to the school, seeing the teaching and getting a feel for the atmosphere of the school.
you will be likely to find that the ethos on child development and how that is put into practice is very much in-line with current ways of thinking.
good luck with your decision x

I went to a very good Steiner school. As teeangers we all took the p* out of anthroposophy, eurythmy and the "steinerized" types but I really benefitted from the lack of academic pressure. When we moved I went to a state school while my sibings went to a rubbish Steiner school for about a year. There was a bullying problem there and I think the teaching was badly regulated. For primary age children I think the most important thing is that you get on with the class teacher as you are with them for up to eight years. I was lucky to have a fantastic class teacher.

It really does depend on the school/ teacher and the child... I'd love to send my DS to a Steiner school when he's old enough but I do worry about the pressure to conform in the community...

thenewgirl said: you will be likely to find that the ethos on child development and how that is put into practice is very much in-line with current ways of thinking.

eh???????? I've stayed out of this until now, but our experience was very similar to northern and cote's

ds1 went to a Steiner kindy for a few months until we pulled him out when we realised what the school was really like

He has special needs and we were told that they dismissed the diagnosis he'd been given by a neurologist at Great Ormond Street, and that his problems were caused by his soul not being ready to reincarnate

I found the 'teacher''s insistence to the children that Atlantis and fairies really existed and that if their parents said something else, then the parents were wrong incredibly irritating

The school was very prescriptive about the way the children played - ds1's teacher would get annoyed that they weren't playing according to Steiner's theories and that somehow made them aberrant - instead of following the children's lead she'd insist they played games her way

When ds1 burned his hand during the s*dding advent spiral not one member of staff came to see if he was alright - his teacher told me the next day that she hadn't wanted to disturb the energy of the ceremony and that he was making a fuss over nothing anyway

and don't get me started on the paintings ... hundreds of washed out rainbows on paper with the corners cut into curves - what the hell is wrong with right angles???

if all that's in line with current thinking on child development, I'd be incredibly surprised ...

and I found it quite spooky that the photos of the inside of Cote's school could just as easily have been taken inside ds1's - brought it all back in horrible detail

yes, we should have done more research before we sent him there - but they do a very good pr job - there was no mention of anthroposophy, reincarnation etc before he started but lots about how well-rounded an education it was, how it was gentle and nuturing and went at the child's own pace - when I mentioned to friends that we were sending him there, they all said "oh, how lovely - I'd love my child to have such a nurturing, arty experience etc" - and when I told them what our school was really like they were shocked at the difference between their perception and our reality

CandLsMummy - I can't CAT, but will have a look at previous posts as you suggested.

thenewgirl:
"easeonline, I feel a little suspicious of"
Can you enlarge on why this might be?
Davy

Hi mimsmum, I'm sorry you seem to have had similar experiences as we have- I hope your kids are settled now? It takes a while.
The holier than thou, we know your child better than you attitude used to infuriate me.They don't like discussion- it's very one sided.

The things that mimsmum says seems to imply the problem is wider spread.

"his problems were caused by his soul not being ready to reincarnate"

"I found the 'teacher''s insistence to the children that Atlantis and fairies really existed and that if their parents said something else, then the parents were wrong incredibly irritating"

"When ds1 burned his hand during the s*dding advent spiral not one member of staff came to see if he was alright - his teacher told me the next day that she hadn't wanted to disturb the energy of the ceremony"

"yes, we should have done more research before we sent him there - but they do a very good pr job - there was no mention of anthroposophy, reincarnation etc before he started

Yes thenew- I'd be interested to hear what your suspicions are of a site which tries to explain some of Steiner's obscure ideas- it certainly needs doing wouldn't you agree?
We all agree, I think, that anthropoosophy is oblique and strange- even the anthroposophists.
I mean - the anthroposophy sites don't really explain it very well- with substantiating quotes from Steiner's own mouth.