Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

Well, I wear skirts over trousers. Most women I know do, but most of them have never even heard of Steiner. Its a fairly standard way for hippy/crusty/traveller women to dress, and I would assume that Steiner attracts a lot of people for whom this is simply the way they dress. Tbh I can't even begin to get worked up by the clothes the parents wear. And my dd's kindergarten teacher had black trousers on last week.

Anthroposophy from the same link - you need to look at the relevant section. The quote nr39 gave is from the home page so is not designed to be an in-depth explanation.

[northernrefugee39]

I find this very muddled. What does the spirit world mean then? Angels, demons ?, I know that- but it says something but nothing if you get my drift.

"Anthroposophy is a path to knowledge based on a spiritual understanding of humanity and our relationship to the spiritual world."

It seems that no-one really knows what anthroposophy means- even people who are brought up by anthroposophists and have 20 years experience like you Stripey.
And this is what informs all Steiner education, medicine, bio-dynamic farming...

[northernrefugee39]

I just don't think I've heard an in-depth explanation- as this is meant to be - ever.
Please explain it to me! I've been asking for years and the only answers , as an explanation to anthroposophy- have been like this. You obviously have such experience, I'd love to know your take and understanding of it- first hand.

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

I still think that as parents we all have to take full responsibility for the choices we make for our children, and researching those choices is part of that.

If you decided you were unhappy with conventional medical treatment, would you choose to give your child an alternative therapy without fully researching what it was, how it worked, where it originated, what negative views other people had of it and so on? I wouldn't be convinced by a few pictures of rosy cheeked children who had thrived on the alternative treatment, I'd want to be certain that it really was the right thing for my family. I would not rely solely on information provided by those offering the treatment.

To send a child somewhere, knowing only that it is 'radically different', without having any idea of how or why it is different, is just not something that I would ever do.

[barking]

Why do steiner/waldorf teachers wear skirts over trousers?

An anthroposophist tells me that steiner instructed mothers and female teachers to wear skirts in the presence of their young children. as the shape of the skirt creates a softer aura and therefore allows for easier incarnation of the child's various spiritual "bodies" (etheric, astral, etc.)

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

See, even I think that is a heap of steaming shite. And the majority of KG teachers and mothers (even the hardline anthro ones) at dd's school wear trousers with no skirts. Or, in my case, wear short skirts with knee-high boots and pink leopard print tights.

[barking]

Stripeymamaspanx - it sounds like you have made an informed choice. We are all doing our best

I did my best when we became part of the steiner system given the limited information I could find at the time.

Northernrefugee39 put very eloquently in a previous post about how families can be attracted to steiner because of what it isn't.

The next question we should ask is:
'what is it?'

[northernrefugee39]

Stripey- Of course we take full responsibility for our choices- we ask questions of the so called experts- and apparently they don't know the answers or are with holding the truth- which one ? When we visited the school- over several meetings - we asked them pertinant questions- and they dismissed them as irrelevant. We read the books they recommended- should we have gone in with such a mistrustful angle- that we shouldn't believe them?

The Steiner apologists pedal their spiritual science/religion with such selective perception.

You're repeating old ground- we trusted them- they abused the trust BIGTIME.

They are dishonest in their holding back of the main agenda.
And you still haven't given me your anthro explanation- what you see as this spritual world they have a path to- I'm seriously interested- and you're lucky you found for your kids what we were so hoping for for ours- if it's a progressive, liberal, arts based school- it just doesn't sound like any Steiner school I know.

[northernrefugee39]

Stripey- are your kids still in kindy? You haven't yet had experience of class 1 upwards?

[barking]

If parents are looking into alternative education you could try looking at:

human scale education

[thenewgirl]

you sound very bitter northern, it's a shame.
I absolutely do believe you when you talk of your personal experience it is just harder to 'listen' to it when you sound so cross about it all iyswim?

none of the steiner graduates I know are loopy/barking/obsessed with anthroposophy (or indeed know anything about anthroposophy). they are all however, without question, compassionate, confident and worldy individuals who all enjoyed their school years. (and only one of them is a bit of a hippy)

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

Right

In answer to the question...

I actually think Anthroposophy is fairly odd. I don't particularly agree with a lot of the 'rationale' behind their beliefs. I (and most of my Steiner educated friends) spend many many pissed happy hours taking the piss out of the wackier theories and teachers. I don't consider it to be in the slightest bit 'secretive' - dd's school are forever running talks and special offers on books, and the teachers will answer any questions asked of them.

But I consider it to be the best education for my child. It is a truly informed choice. I spent six years at Steiner school (from 8-14) and both started and finished my education at state school, so I have experience of the good and bad in both systems.

Anthroposophy may be behind the education, but it is not actually introduced to the children. So there may well be crackpot hardline Anthropops who think that a devil speaks out of the tv, but that is not a concept that my child will be made aware of.

I'd say that only about 25% of the parents are Anthroposophists - most of the rest are well aware of it but choose to simply take what they can from the education on offer and leave the anthroposophising to those who are interested. There are some parents who don't appear to have a clue what the school is all about, but tbh I think thats just lazy parenting rather than the fault of the school for being 'secretive'.

I have to say that if there were an school like Steiner (no formal education til seven, outdoorsy, anti-tv etc etc) but without the Anthroposophy, I'd probably choose that instaed. In the absense of that, I have chosen Steiner for my child. I have not done so in ignorance, and having made that choice I do my best to support the school and what it offers to my daughter.

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

I grew up with anthroposophical parents, and have experience of the steiner system, but mainly the state system. But I know a lot of anthroposophists, and have spoken with a lot of teachers.

Here is the thing-different schools are very different. Round here, the school is not really run by anthroposophists, it is a highly multicultural school and when I asked about the whole black crayon thing they laughted-they use black. They also had an en masse argument with an elderly anthroposophist about black being an "evil colour".

One of our nearby schools, however, is very different indeed, much, much more "orthodox".

It really does depend on the school, and even within that, on the teacher. Steiner schools have the potential to be bloody awful places, but also rather nice places.

OTOH I would sooner homeschool (and indeed am) than send my kids through the Steiner system. Would not send my kids through any old steiner school, and would always be prepared to pull them out in the event of a clash with their class teacher. A suprising number of anthroposophists (including my parents) say the same.

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

Yep, my mother is anthro and she says the same too.

In fact, the advice she gives to people is that in the event of problems of any kind - pull kids out rather than expect the school to deal with it properly.

But when it works, it is nice.

[TheodoresMummy]

Sorry to keep repeating myself, but...

...CandL's mummy - would you mind saying which schools you are talking about ? It might help ma enormously.

[TheodoresMummy]

Have emailed you Stripey - many thanks !!

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

TM-I think there is a lot of reluctance to talk about specific schools here, and I do share it. This really impacts on my RL.

If you want to know which schools I am talking about, you are more than welcome to CAT me, and so is anyone else, but I don't really feel ok about putting it up here.

(otoh I don't make a secret of where I live-you can always search my posts and work it out!)

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

lol at anthro btw

We sometimes call them the "anthroposipha"

They really are bloody harmless though.

[northernrefugee39]

You're quite holier than thou aren't you newgirl?- I would actually call myself passionate angry about it- not bitter- but my state of mind really has no relevance. You don't seem to want to take on board that my kids, and many others , have had a rough ride
at the hands of a pseudo religious spiritual science.
Hey - you yourself say" non of the Steiner graduates.......or indeed know anything about anthroposophy)."
You prove the point- and so does Stripey.
And we would choose a school that had the things Steiner proported to be offering.

Charlieandlolas- I really don't think you can say that anthros are harmless- given all the stuff that's gone before
This is in danger of repeating and repeating. I think it's reaching an impasse....

(

[easeonline]

"none of the steiner graduates I know are loopy/barking/obsessed with anthroposophy (or indeed know anything about anthroposophy)"
Might we interpret this as "none of the graduates are aware...of knowing anything of Anthroposophy"?
The sort of thing I have in mind is being taught of Atlantis as historical fact, of being taught (otherwise discredited) Goethean Science, and of the ubiqutous German lessons.
If such things were/are taught at your particular school.
Davy

[easeonline]

Hello StripeyMamaSpanx,
You wrote:
"I know about Steiner. I know about anthroposophy."
For me at least, this raises the question: are you a blue card holder, meaning, have you been through the First Class induction process of The Anthroposophical Society?
Why would anyone ask?
This:
"No person is qualified to form a judgment on the contents of this work, who has not acquired ? through the School of Spiritual Science itself or in an equivalent manner recognized by the School of Spiritual Science ? the requisite preliminary knowledge. Other opinions will be disregarded: the authors decline to take them as a basis for discussion."
www.rsarchive.org/caveat.php?win
I'm afraid that this means that those of us who are not fans are, by Anthroposophy's own lights, excluded from discussion, but then, so are fans without the card.
Davy

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

northern-WHAT stuff that has gone before?

Am genuinely confused.

They do have rather odd beliefs, yes. So do all religious people.

[StripeyMamaSpanx]

C&LMummy - me too.

Its obviously because we are brainwashed

A quick MN name search is making me think that there are posters who have an agenda here. Or possibly a rather unhealthy obsession.

I appreciate the concern for myself and my dd, but really, its fine. I know what I'm on about, I know what the school is about, and I have made the choice that I am happy with it.

[Rantmum]

Thanks, everyone.

We are going to the open day at the school, but I think that it may not end up being the right option for us and our lo. It has been very useful to hear the opinions of the MNer who have had both positive and negative experiences with the Steiner system.

I think that the system may be a bit too prescriptive for us, though.

I would really prefer my childs education to take place in an environment that is informed by more recent science regarding early childhood development, although I doubt that such a system exists. It seems the choice is between an alternative philosophy such as Steiner which has its roots in a very 19th century notion of childhood and spirituality, or the mainstream which values academic testing to the detriment of personal and social development.

[northernrefugee39]

Charlieand lola- had to go last night- I mean the things we've had to put up with - which I've posted earlier and on other threads. At the risk of repeating myself- we had a new, teacher in training-who was heavily mentored by elder and experienced anthro staff who used alot of anthroposophical reasons for choices and judgements within the classroom, all the teachers classified the children into Temperaments- they were labelled and judged with this maxim in mind, there were periods of total lack of control in the classroom- resulting in manhandling of quite a questionable nature, we had some issues to do with three children being severely bullied- it wasn't delt with - due to the interruption of the karmic path we later heard, left handed children were heavily encouraged to swap- due to re incarnation problems we later understood. There were some issues which seem to be to do with race- which while everyone vehemently denies Steiner's race views, it's still all there. See the post too earlier in this thread about the total lack of any black or Asian people in Steiner. Our school was heavily weighted with Germananic influence.
Was it Stripey who said that her anthroposophical Mum said if anything goes wrong- get out. Well- if anything is questioned too really- because if you question them- when their backs are against the wall- they go silent, they stone wall - and Stripey obviously knows this.