Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

Hmm.

Tin cans are probably too cornery or something.

We need a messenger pigeon.

make that three rouge schools -dh doesn't remember that verse either!

I have found this thread quite strange and I have been trying to keep my distance from it.
but this is how I feel....

Steiner's big bad, secret, hidden agenda (whatever!) that you harp on about,is nowhere near as dangerous as the government's secret agenda on the national curriculum; the curriculum is designed to cater for the economic needs of the country -our little darlings are being programmed by the gov at the tender age of 4 years to become our future money makers! (actually they are due to start their training at 3 now, I believe). but hey! that is ok, right?
no way!
The Steiner curriculum allows children to grow emotionally, physicaly, mentally spiritually, (although I get the idea that some you don't believe this to be a good thing?). the curriculum is so in-tune with the child's whole development, it allows the child to develop in the most childlike and natural way.

so what if some of them have some strange beliefs? if you like what you see and your child is happy at school, then what is the problem? -if you have a problem, then take your child to another school -another steiner school if that is what is right for you. there is no big dark nasty secrets it is just another way of life.

what I don't get is why some people go to such lengths to try to prove that the whole steiner school system is evil!
for the people it does suit, it is really great.

Filly, I love your posts.

(ps I know an asian family in a steiner school )

and their kids are thriving there too ...

Newgirl excellent sum up & exactly WHY I chose Steiner:

Cote I can see you have issues with the whole Steiner school being secretive and that is fair enough but I have to say that all of what you and nr39 have said, I have not experienced in our school.

I went to our schools website (just to check again) and on the first page it does talk about spiritual, physical, and emotional development of the child. It talks about daily verses (and I noticed that it talked about daily verses on your French Steiner site as well). I suppose what you are trying to say is that it should be called a prayer rather than a verse and that the schools should be more open about their spiritual side and explain about anthroposophy. Maybe they should but then our school is very open anyway so it goes to show that you can get good & bad Steiner schools.(I count myself very lucky indeed)

After a dreadful experience at a state school with my ds1, I looked for an education that would not burn my children out and I will explain why:

My youngest child is 6 nearly 7 and is in class 1. Before class 1 he did not want to read, now 4 months into class 1 he is eager to read, he knows his letters, knows very basic words, looks at books all of the time and I know he is now looking forward to unlocking the code. Now, had I put him through state school (or other private education, which we had looked at as well) at the age of 5, he would have switched off.
From a very early age he did not like being pushed into learning, he liked/likes to learn from things that interest him like creating a mess, making models, playing armies, painting dodgy pictures (black is allowed) jumping and running through mud, cooking, baking and did I say making a mess?, cleaning it away, gardening, digging up slugs and worms, sitting on the dogs head whilst watching TV among a ton of other things.
He did not want to do the boring stuff like reading, writing, adding, subtracting at 3, 4 or even 5.
How could I deny him his childhood? And if he is reciting verses ..oops I mean prayers so what!.

Just going to wade in briefly as I really need to nap, but wanted to add my support for Steiner education. My DS1 has done two years of Steiner pre-school and starts at a Steiner Kindergarten this year. DH and I believe that it really suits his personality and style and provides the kind of environment he needs to thrive. We are not fanatics, but I do my best to not confuse him too much. But we do watch a bit of telly, although time-bounded and supervised. We read books to our DS's every evening. My DH is German and loves the similarities in the teaching to what he experienced as a child.

I love the diversity of cultures at DS's school. There are quite a few Japanese and Germans naturally, but also a fair smattering of other cultures and I think it gives him a very differnt perspective on himself and the world than the one he would have if we sent him to the Public School up the road.

I think DS's school if fine with our more mainstream lifestyles so long as we don't rub their nose in it.

FWIW I think each Steiner school has the potential to be quite different. We have one Steiner school around the corner from us that we have chosen not to send DS1 to as it is more 'fanatical' than the one that I have to drive quite a distance to get to.

What I have heard from experienced parents is that it is the Committee run nature of the school and the lack of a principal that causes tension with the parents. We will just wait and see and if our opinion of its suitability changes we will make any necessary changes then.

oh - and DH and I are aetheists

Thenewgirl:
"so what if some of them have some strange beliefs? if you like what you see and your child is happy at school,then what is the problem?"

None.

"-if you have a problem, then take your child to another school -another steiner school if that is what is right for you."

On the basis of information generally available, how long, and at what cost both financial and emotional do you reckon it would take to arrive at this conclusion

"there is no big dark nasty secrets"

I beg to differ. Where does one go to find anything of, eg the occult significance of colour, which is the basis for the sameness of the paintings displayed at open days and the like.

it is just another way of life.

Bingo. Well said newgirl, an entire way of life, not just a differnet pedagogy in education. I have no problem with this if that is indeed what people are seeking, but if not....
Davy

Stripey- you said that people who are aware of the spiritual side must be determined not tho know anything about the school.
I think we've eatablished fairly comprehensively - from websites about the schools- Cote's, the school my kids went to, Michael Hall's prospectus- and most others actually, this from mimsmum-earlier in this thread-
"yes, we should have done more research before we sent him there - but they do a very good pr job - there was no mention of anthroposophy, reincarnation etc before he started"
When I asked if the school was religious at one of our many meetings- the answer was an emphatic "no".
Actually- the Steiner schools are very anxious NOT to be classed as religious or faith schools because it has something to do with state funding if they ever want to apply for it. They call the religious aspect "spiritual science"- the science meaning they actually BELIEVE it as SCIENTIFIC FACT- Anyone seen the Tom Cruise scientology video yet?

State schools do have to have christian morning worship- but you are allowed to remove your child if it offends you.

I meant to say people who AREN'T aware of the spiritual side.

I also think that if everything is going fine, and there are no problems at Steiner waldorf- it obviously works well. If a problem like questioning labelling with the temperaments, left handedness, religious things you may not be happy with, telling kids myths are emphatically true, bullying etc etc,- ther can be huge problems- because every choice made is anthroposophical.
But if it all goes swimmingly- like some people's experiences here- it works.

nr39

labelling with the temperaments - children get labelled in state/private school as well.

left handedness - there are some children who are left handed in both of my childrens classes.
In fact they had to move one left handed child who sat next one of my sons because they were constantly clashing as they worked.

religious things you may not be happy with - I am happy with it because I was aware at the beginning and before signing on the dotted line.

telling kids myths are emphatically true - I have yet to hear my sons tell me that a myth is true.

bullying - happens everywhere - work & school. Heres just one website, it displays parents who are at the end of their tether with bullying.
In fact just read through the threads on this very forum as well.

www.parentscentre.gov.uk/forum/categories.cfm?catid=153
(please note that it isn't a Steiner link or has anything to do with Steiner)

Steiner school is not for everyone and it is a very big commitment in terms of education & parental involvment.
The best advice I can give is to research the choices of education State, Montessorri, Home Education, Steiner, other private.
You will know which one best suits your child and you!

Thenew- you may not mind the fact that the schools are anything but upfront- alot of us do. The fact that the anthroposophical stuff is - in their own words- esoteric- means only a few know-

Wikepedia-
"Esoteric knowledge is that which is specialized or advanced in nature, available only to a narrow circle of "enlightened", "initiated", or highly educated people".

The Steiner schools see it as their sacred task- ( Steiner's description) - to lead and help children to this path of knowledge. Parents aren't considered that important- it's the class teacher who knows the children best , in their view.

But you must know that already. I keep forgetting you did such thorough research before you embarked on Steiner education.

One thing that interests me, about karma and destiny- that things in life are pre ordained- it seems to negate the idea of free will to take hold of your life and make decisions for yourself; it's all decided already- it is so, a fait accomplit. I know this is putting it very simplistically- it was a discussion I used to have with the teacher- things are fluid, they change- my child isn't sanguine- she's in that mood today because... or the bullying was because of things from a past life.. - Tom Cruise scientology video any one ?gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress?autoplay=tr ue

lush-

"labelling with the temperaments - children get labelled in state/private school as well."
er...- with medieval temperaments?!

"bullying - happens everywhere - work & school."

I think it may be quite a particular problem in Steiner school- may be wrong- but I think it is. And - Steiner school must be alone in not dealing with it because it interrupts the karmic path? Is a past life issue? n'est pas?

Another interesting and worthwhile search for people looking into Steiner is to see how people do when they've left- in terms of life satisfaction, fulfilling job, career, life etc. Because that seems to be a big reason for sending kids there.

lush- in kindy my daughter was subtley/sneakily encouraged to use her right hand. Things passed to her right hand, table layed right handed. She thought she wasn't good, or was wrong and different because of this.
A child in class 1/2 was ridiculed because she was so bad at knitting- it was always un- picked in front of the class, she was always behind, and often in tears. She was left handed. How cruel.

It emerged at a parents evening. There was very heated discussion- the staff were extremely flustered.

Steiner believed left handedness to be a reincarnation problem that needed to be corrected for ease of transition to the next life or some BOLLOCKS.

It's probably appropriate here to make some kind of apology: there are quite a few points on which I'd want to contribute some thoughts, but I have already done so at the easeonline website. It is not my intention simply to promote the site, nor do I have any commercial gain to be made. Rather, having dedicated no little time, effort and money into building that site, it would be exasperating for me to re-write it here. There will probably be some castigation coming my way, but I have learned to handle that. Others of you may well agree with the validity of simply referring to the site.

Charlieandlolasmum (who impresses me at least as being pretty much open minded about all this stuff) wrote:

"Ultimately, incarnation is no one's business but the incarnatee."

I'd suggest that this is incompatible with Steiner education. The karmic relationship between teacher and pupil is crucial.

'Karma in the Classroom' was contributed by a former Steiner kindergarten (or if you prefer, nursery) teacher, now disaffected.

Now, while some of you will be entirely relaxed, even enthusiastic about some of the 'understandings' described, others may be horrified. My main point here is that if similar information is made available by any Waldorf School, Camphill etc, please, please,please provide the contact information.
Here's the link: www.easeonline.org/education.htm
Davy

Undoubtedly some of you are very well content with you own Steiner School, and it's good to know that.
I would however ask any of you to describe how your own school deals with anyone who does have their child enroled, and then becomes unhappy with this or that aspect.
What's the grievance procedure? who conducts it, and under what auspices?
Davy

We have a grievance procedure for employees which is much the same as for any other employment place

I know because

a. I know about employment law

b. I helped to write it

c. I have seem people go through the greviance procedure and meet a satisfactory resolution.

We also have a complaints procedure for parents, which bascially mirrors the greviance procedure. It is used on occasion, it has resulted in both small and large changes to how things operate. It is probably partly as a result of this that we are such a multi-faith school.

I don't know what to say about the incarnation thing. I think there is certainly debate within the anthroposophical movement about such things, and I also think that there can be tension between teachers, responsible as they are for keeping order in a class of 20, and anthroposophical orthodoxy. One thing that has come up that I don't recognise is this idea that the teacher knows better than the parents-this has very much not been my impression, particularly in early years.

But the trouble with Steiner is that you really can substantiate ANYTHING using quotes from him books, simply because there are so many of them and he DID shift position on stuff (hardcore anthros might disagree ) .

I honestly think it must be coming down to different schools being different. Like I say, I'd avoid the majority of Steiner schools for my kids, but there are a few that I think are fine. But TBH I'd always be prepared to pull them out, if the had a rubbish class teacher.

(I am happy to go through in depth the greviance/complaints procedures-it would be a longish post though.)

Thankyou ease for the link to the article by a Sreiner trained teacher/parent.
It says simply and elequently alot of the things misunderstood or not recognised by some posters.

To go back to Cote's things about prayers/verses- our school had morning verses/prayers, blessings, masses of songs/hymns about St Michael etc, advent spiral, shepherd's play, Michelmas, St. John's festival, lantern festival with the Martinmas play afterwards. While also embracing heavenly, cosmic, spiritual and pre-gods and godesses- there is no doubt that they are spiritual and religious.

Filly- parents weren't generally there when the prayers/verses are said- they were in class. And candles are lit etc. But you went to a Steiner school didn't you?As far as I know from friends kids, Elmfield have this, Winstones have this,King's Langley, I think Michael Hall do. How strange you're school didn't have it. Defineley rogue I'd say......

"if you like what you see and your child is happy at school,then what is the problem?"

The problem is that what you see is different than what you get.

You see: open areas, vegetable garden, healthy food, gentle pedagogy, art, baking, lots of outdoor play.

What you get: On top of the above, you get psychobabble. Reincarnation, spirit world, daily prayer to 'the spirit of God' that talks about 'the soul that lives in me', homeopathy, shunning of vaccinations, etc.

It is entirely possible that my child could be happy with all this. In fact, it is quite normal that once a cult gets hold of a very young person, he/she is then happy in their fold. That does not mean that parents should be OK with whatever the school teaches as long as their child is happy with it.

Before you go "Ooh it's not a cult, we've been there, it's lovely" etc, I don't know if Steiner schools are a cult.

The French Government certainly thinks so, though.

Well said Cote- actually- it's worse than homeopathy- it's anthroposophical medicine-

Wikedpedia-

"Anthroposophical medicine is based upon the anthroposophical view of the human being which considers the patient's:[1]
physical constitution;
life or etheric body, seen as the organizing principle directing growth and regeneration;
astral body, understood as the bearer of affect and consciousness;
and ego, seen as the capacity for self-reflection and free will."

Thenew
you said

"nowhere near as dangerous as the government's secret agenda on the national curriculum; the curriculum is designed to cater for the economic needs of the country -our little darlings are being programmed by the gov at the tender age of 4 years to become our future money makers! (actually they are due to start their training at 3 now, I believe). but hey! that is ok, right?"

Quite a dramatic statement- I, my husband , and a lot of my friends have fulfilling, creative jobs- we don't earn a fortune- but it suits us. Don't think we got brainwashed or programmed even, by the secret agenda of Labour.
But that's not to say I don't think the currriculum couldn't be improved on. HEY- that's why we looked at this progressive, liberal arts based cult called Steiner Waldorf....
Back to square one.

Has anyone seen that Tom Cruise scientology video by the way?
Now that's more wacko than the anthros- just.

yes, my school hasn't been mentioned