Have I done my poor kid a grave disservice in sending him to an independent school?

[Firstgenuni]

I was the first (and only) generation of our family to go to university - as was dh. My parents scrimped and remortgaged to send me to a v middling independent (on a scholarship), and I got a place at Oxford. Dh went state until sixth form, and also got to Oxford, where we met, yadda yadda. My parents (mum is an immigrant, dad left school at 15) always said that there won’t be any inheritance (and there really won’t be!), but my education was their investment in my future.

I did take this to heart, and ds (Year 12) has been in the local independent since reception, for other reasons too (a huge teacher discount of 66% for junior and senior schools being the main one, and load of extracurricular stuff handily on site <given we both work full time> being the other main reason.)
Uni admissions didn’t figure in decisions we made way back. His fair-sized school gets about 15 kids into Oxbridge a year, so good, but no St Paul’s, etc (about 80 apply, I think)

Ds now has his heart set on natural sciences on Cambridge. I know nothing about it - both dh and I did humanities subjects. But we tell him to use the internet to search up natural science taster sessions and essay competitions and online courses, and see what interesting things he can find.
He’s now finding that there just aren’t many things available.

Pembroke college, for instance, that he loves the sound of, is running a taster event for natural sciences - online, but ‘due to capacity restrictions, successful applicants must be attending a UK state school.’ It’s online, ffs!

Newnham college (yes I know he can’t go there ) runs all their essays for UK state schools only now, despite a friend of ds’s at a neighbouring independent winning one of their prizes just last year. Is this the way things are going?

I’ve chatted to his head of sixth, and they are very much offering advice like yes, we are encouraging applications to the Ivy League now too, and look at this great summer course by invest costing over £400. . Meanwhile, his cousin enjoyed a totally free materials science course run in the hols by a major independent as part of their ‘outreach to state schools’ - but is at a very well-respected grammar, with a good sized Oxbridge cohort anyway!

We don’t have £400 for fancy courses. We don’t have lots of connections like a lot of wealthier parents seem to. I feel extremely sad that I have, inadvertently, made it so much more difficult for ds to achieve his ambition.

Obviously he is reading science books out of the school library and pursuing the topics that he is interested in, and he’s watching videos and listening to podcasts, but what can he do to impress that doesn’t cost money, but isn’t restricted to state school students?

And I know I’ll get a load of flack for complaining, but it really feels as though things are being made extra difficult for ds for being the ‘poor relation’ in an independent- and it’s my fault. [eyeroll]

To be brutally honest, unless he excels at science and is the absolute best of the best there's no way he's getting into natural sciences at Cambridge. Insanely competitive at the highest level. Forget state vs private argument. He will need to be a genius (he might be) and have some spectacular extra curricular activities.

The things these colleges are doing are an attempt to level the playing field for state school students, not to disadvantage your son, who is already benefitting from the advantage of a private education.

But surely the best thing he can do is to be a bit creative and pursue some activities which demonstrate his commitment to his subject and show he is capable of being an independent learner and a self-starter (something which is often lacking in inde school pupils)?

It isn't much more difficult, the extra things he isn't getting are there to give a slight step up to children with less opportunities than you.

Have you heard the saying that any removal of privilege feels like discrimination? It's usually aimed at men complaining that the gym runs something for women, for example, for women who can't go to mixed sessions for reasons men can't relate to. That's what you are doing here.

You are giving your DS credit for all his good luck (being successful and academic enough to even consider natural sciences at Cambridge, seeing that as a normal aspiration). Yet you are acting like a victim as soon as you encounter the tiniest bit of bad luck. This isn't going to help your DS be likeable, well balanced or cope with any disappointment.

Can you try to see it as he's had so much already to help him get there, he has great parents who are supportive, he goes to a good school. There are a thousand tiny ways you could have reduced his chances, this is not one.

So you want us to feel sorry for you because you sent your child to an independent school at the same time that Oxbridge are trying to widen access beyond elitist schools?

It's fabulous he is ambitious. The statistics are available online which show how many are rejected and he needs to be aware that an application is a punt and not much more. If you look on the Higher Education board there are loads of 3 A* pupils with plenty of extra/supra curricular being straight out rejected at a number of higher ranking universities.

Of course he should apply and you need to work on showing him that other universities also offer NatSci and interesting, challenging courses.

If you are in England/Wales also pay close attention to how few have got into Scottish universities.

oxbridge isn the be all and end all. Help him to concentrate on his studies/work hard/get the best grades he can. Start to look at possible Universities.
He can also write/email professors and ask for advice.

I work at Cambridge and yes this is now a thing. It will not be enough to go to an independent school. You will have to compete with incredible state applicants who will be given extra opportunities to level the playing field. The people I work with have the X factor in all areas. Kind, lovely, superb levels of energy and brightness. They are special in every way. The cohort is the best of the best. If you’re coming to Cambridge you’d better bring your A game and beyond because these people have brains like encyclopaedias.

This is terrible advice (and doesn’t answer OP’s question at all). If DH had listened to the teacher who told him his career ambitions were unrealistic and impossible, he’d have had a very different life.

OP I know nothing about natsci interview strategy but all he can do is try. Perhaps he’ll ace the interview.

I don’t know the system here as studied o/s but when you mention tasters and essays can he still apply?

Is it just these extras he’s missing out on?

I have just taken the decision to send DS to an independent school (“private school” as it is in Scotland) to redress a monumental cock up by his current state school.

In doing that I have had to accept that it will disadvantage him for some of the unis he wants to apply to. It feels unfair, particularly because he will have had 11 years of state school and only 2 of private.

However, I have chosen to acknowledge that is my privilege to have the means to address the mess by sending him to the new school, so really one will balance out the other.

I agree with other posters saying that where your son is now is already the result of the private education, and the unis are just looking to give state school applicants some of the same opportunities.

This isn't new. I grew up in Cambridge and it was commonplace for local middle class parents to pull their kids out of the private schools and put them into state 6th form colleges so they could apply as 'state school applicants'. My parents didn't bother with that, I went to Edinburgh and had a great time. My career has panned out no worse than my old school friends who went to Oxbridge.

Your son is so lucky to have had a great education and be aspiring to higher education. Be grateful for that rather than begrudging kids who aren't so privileged opportunities too. It's about time Oxbridge stopped being so bloody elitest!

My dd did independent, 11-18. Her dd is in independent, from under 3, now aged 10, likely to stay in her school until 18. Never regretted a moment. Like your parents, OP, education was the opportunity we had, so we took it. Just as attitudes years ago might have made things harder for some young people, different attitudes today are making things harder for others. Get around it, and don't look back.

@Neverreturntoathread I'm not saying that he shouldn't apply but the OP is agonising over the fact that he may be ?disadvantaged because he can't access free courses which aim to address inequality in the school system and can't afford to send her DS to the expensive extra courses available to independent school pupils when in fact she needs to understand that NatSci at Cambridge is crazy competitive for anyone whatever the background. My niece (good state school) applied for NatSci at Cambridge, attended lots of these extra courses run for oxbridge candidates and is academically gifted and was unsuccessful and was absolutely crushed. If OP thinks he has a realistic chance then they need to ensure a good application but also prepare that it's incredibly competitive whatever extra courses they send / don't send him on.

I agree with @needmorethanthis. He's a privileged applicant (not just because he's had independent schooling, but also because he comes from a family with experience of higher education).

Pembroke really need to do some catch-up work to attract students from less privileged backgrounds. They have a very dodgy history in this area and I think what you describe is frankly the least they could do.

I agree with others that you are completely missing the point of these schemes that target state school students.

Your DS is already advantaged and ahead of the game by way of his private education. State school students won’t have that. These schemes are designed to help level the playing field, not give state school students an advantage over private school.

Your attitude shows exactly what is wrong with the Oxbridge mindset - that it’s elitist and should be reserved for those from a certain background, ie those that go to private school, who should have their career choices simply handed to them.

(Oh, and there are still capacity issues with online events. It's not an excuse.)

The events will be there to give state school students a background and taster for the subject that your son has probably already received (even if implicitly and not explicitly) through his independent school education. He will have had tuition, extra-curricular activity opportunities and lesson content that most students in state schools won’t have been able to access which will put him in a much better position academically than state school candidates. The events are to level the playing field and make sure the students who get accepted onto the courses at prestigious universities are generally the best and those with the most potential, not just the students who have had the best education up to the point of applying. Your sons independent school education shouldn’t disadvantage him, but it shouldn’t give him any advantage either - it’s only luck he has parents who were able to put him through independent education and university acceptance should be on the individual students own merit and potential, not their financial or educational background which few will have had any choice over.

OP, you're bound to get some nasty and unhelpful comments, but just try to let them roll off your back. You're not doing anything wrong in wanting to support your DS's ambition. (And btw, I say this as someone state educated who is very pro widening access! But of course individual parents want the very best for their own child.)

The best things DS can do are: try to be a self starter in gaining experience beyond his curriculum (more than just reading etc), and aim to score as highly as possible in any relevant tests. Certainly no harm at all in reading around, but better to go beyond popular science books if he can.

The second thread today with a parent complaining about the 'unfairness' to their privately educated child. And the second thread where I have zero sympathy.

Despite what some posters on here will no doubt come on to say privatly educated children STILL have a statistically better chance of getting into Oxbridge, the civil service, top law firms etc etc. Oxbridge still has a long way to go before there is a level playing filed.

I'm sorry OP but I have no sypathy. Those students who make it into Oxbridge from state schools totally desrve their places there. They are not depriving any indy educated student a place. Those state educated students are absolutely the creme de la creme. They work hard to get through the selection process and will have A Level grades to match. Some of them will have had no choice but to attend underfunded schools from the age of 5. And despite this they succeed.

Hi OP, I used to be involved in admissions for a CB college, though in the humanities. It's true that there are a lot of outreach events specifically for state schools, and also that the definition of 'state school' is such that some very well-appointed schools are included.

Cynical question: If your son has a year of school left after this one, is there a decent state sixth form nearby? A fair few applicants seemed to count as 'state' after attending a fee-paying school followed by a state 6th form.

That said, the reason these outreach events exist is because a 'non-state' education continues to confer advantages in the application process, especially at interview stage. If your son's school regularly gets applicants in, he can't be that badly placed.

Besides, contrary to myth, not all the ppl who get into CB are geniuses, not by a long shot. Can you see league tables for the colleges somewhere? If so, look at the ones that perform less well in the sciences; they are liable to have a smaller applicant pool and hence better odds. It's such a cynical business.

If he's going to get in, he'll get in, attendance on a £400 course isn't going to make any difference. 15 students a year to Oxbridge is great, his school have a wealth of experience in helping students prepare for Oxbridge, something that some state schools simply do not have. Don't worry about not accessing opportunities only available for state school students, your DS is not at a disadvantage, he's had access to more opportunities than most other students applying. If he deserves a place, he'll get one on his own merits.

Absolutely agree with this 100%

Private schools still get a disproportionate number of kids into Oxbridge.

You haven't done your son any harm at all (assuming that he has actually benefited from the school you chose). What the provisions aimed at state school pupils are for is to give other children a chance to compete fairly, so that motivated, clever state school kids don't lose out to some public school thicko, which seems completely fair. Clever, motivated private school kids are still very welcome at Oxbridge, which is why there are so many of them there.

Although it might seem unfair that taster events aren’t available to him, I don’t think they have been open to independent school candidates for a long time. He doesn’t need the taster event - he already knows about the course he wants to study and his school have experience of sending pupils so will give him support.

It seems a bit more unfair the essay contest isn’t open to him, but at least with science there are other options - the chemistry Olympiad, the physics challenge and I guess there is something similar for biology. There is also the C3L6 challenge in chemistry next term. In previous years the very top students were asked to a summer school. Of the students my son met, everyone who wanted a NatSci place got one - the others instead went to Oxford or went to study engineering or medicine at Cambridge. Doing well in this will make him standout but he will need to be very good at chemistry.

The events will be there to give state school students a background and taster for the subject that your son has probably already received (even if implicitly and not explicitly) through his independent school education.

That. My daughter interviewed for Oxbridge, and on the evening before she went out with some of the other applicants who were staying overnight at the college with her. She was the only state school applicant there, and they were all talking about what preparation and information they'd been given about applying. She was stunned that basically they'd been taught about applying and having special lessons etc for it for years. She'd had three lunchtime group sessions with one of her teachers, and a mock interview.

Your decision has given your DS a vastly superior preparation for Oxbridge, and I'm not even talking his academic education. He'll have been primed for Oxbridge to a degree that no state school can match.

The taster days that are just for state school applicants are the colleges' attempt to offer state school applicants maybe 1% of what indy pupils have learned about the place as part of their education, and the advice they've had from tutors.