Have I done my poor kid a grave disservice in sending him to an independent school?

[Firstgenuni]

I was the first (and only) generation of our family to go to university - as was dh. My parents scrimped and remortgaged to send me to a v middling independent (on a scholarship), and I got a place at Oxford. Dh went state until sixth form, and also got to Oxford, where we met, yadda yadda. My parents (mum is an immigrant, dad left school at 15) always said that there won’t be any inheritance (and there really won’t be!), but my education was their investment in my future.

I did take this to heart, and ds (Year 12) has been in the local independent since reception, for other reasons too (a huge teacher discount of 66% for junior and senior schools being the main one, and load of extracurricular stuff handily on site <given we both work full time> being the other main reason.)
Uni admissions didn’t figure in decisions we made way back. His fair-sized school gets about 15 kids into Oxbridge a year, so good, but no St Paul’s, etc (about 80 apply, I think)

Ds now has his heart set on natural sciences on Cambridge. I know nothing about it - both dh and I did humanities subjects. But we tell him to use the internet to search up natural science taster sessions and essay competitions and online courses, and see what interesting things he can find.
He’s now finding that there just aren’t many things available.

Pembroke college, for instance, that he loves the sound of, is running a taster event for natural sciences - online, but ‘due to capacity restrictions, successful applicants must be attending a UK state school.’ It’s online, ffs!

Newnham college (yes I know he can’t go there ) runs all their essays for UK state schools only now, despite a friend of ds’s at a neighbouring independent winning one of their prizes just last year. Is this the way things are going?

I’ve chatted to his head of sixth, and they are very much offering advice like yes, we are encouraging applications to the Ivy League now too, and look at this great summer course by invest costing over £400. . Meanwhile, his cousin enjoyed a totally free materials science course run in the hols by a major independent as part of their ‘outreach to state schools’ - but is at a very well-respected grammar, with a good sized Oxbridge cohort anyway!

We don’t have £400 for fancy courses. We don’t have lots of connections like a lot of wealthier parents seem to. I feel extremely sad that I have, inadvertently, made it so much more difficult for ds to achieve his ambition.

Obviously he is reading science books out of the school library and pursuing the topics that he is interested in, and he’s watching videos and listening to podcasts, but what can he do to impress that doesn’t cost money, but isn’t restricted to state school students?

And I know I’ll get a load of flack for complaining, but it really feels as though things are being made extra difficult for ds for being the ‘poor relation’ in an independent- and it’s my fault. [eyeroll]

Actually they generally look at where they are educated up to y11 mainly to ser the context of their gcses or equivalent so your DC is unlikely to be disadvantaged.

But natural sciences is not 'biology'. It's already interdisciplinary, and it isn't archaeology or anything else. Nor is it a theoretical subject without practical applications.

Have you looked at the course outline? Large amounts of biology in there!
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/natural-sciences

Op, the pre course reading list looks well worth digging into.

My DS is at an independent school and predicted good grades. Anecdotally a lot of his high achieving friends are finding it difficult to secure places for popular courses (medicine etc). As a parent I feel disappointed for those individuals that their aspirations at this stage haven’t been met, but that’s life really, you pick yourself up and think of a different way of achieving what you want.

A good school is so much more than a top university place or stellar grades. It can set people up through the environment for a lifetime of personal and professional success/happiness. It gives people choices and shapes who they are.

I went to a comp and an old style Poly, DH went to independent school and Cambridge but I have the more successful career because I’m more resourceful and resilient and used to failure! Those are the things that will probably make the difference rather than not going to Oxbridge!

I feel disadvantaged because my daughter has a disability but school are not on the widening participation lists of universities and we have both been to Uni so she doesn't qualify in other ways too. She hasn't managed to sit in a state school classroom for 2 years!

I just don't feel sorry for you I'm afraid. Universities have been told to even the playing field. The kids they are now giving opportunities to lack cultural and educational capital. Your family has it in abundance.

I think what surprises me most about your post is your concern that you know nothing about natural sciences as if this stops you supporting your son. You are both Oxford educated, surely you realise you’re way more capable than the average parent?
I went to Hull and wouldn’t have made Oxbridge in my wildest dreams but have supported countless friends’ children with uni applications, job applications and projects irrespective of their subject. I read and I research.

I get it OP. I have just sent my youngest to private school because our only local catchment school is awful and it is a big stretch for us. It certainly doesn't feel like a huge advantage. However, I was also the first in my family to go to uni and I really wanted to go to Cambridge. I worked so hard and got top A levels but failed at interview - partly because I was competing with students whose private schools had prepared them for months. My state school did nothing, not even a word of encouragement. I am so glad that this is being addressed now.

I completely agree @tootiredtoocare
My DCs went to a comprehensive school, did reasonably well at A levels and went to university.
Both did very well and have great careers.
My DS’s university was considered pretty unimpressive by many but he absolutely thrived there.

If your child is the best of the best, he will get in - one summer course completed or not won't make a jot of difference. They know who they are looking for op.
I would be coming up with plenty of other universities that offer the same course and spreading your bets widely, and ensure he is flexible and open to lots of different options.

@Libertybear80 I was a disabled child/teen and missed years of school during adolescence, but ultimately still got into Oxbridge for the course I wanted to do. Attendance isn't an assessment criterion as such, it's much more achievement and ability that they're interested in. If your DD is keen, she should give it a try! They're also much better at accommodating disability now than when I started (and even then they did try really hard).

Getting into Oxbridge is tough! Your ds has had years of advantage over most state school children with smaller class sizes, access to wide ranging extracurricular activities that a lot of state school children won’t have access to!

DS1 got into Oxford from a very average comp, you say 80 apply at your ds’s school. Well ds1 was the only one in his year to apply!

Your ds has been very fortunate to have the education he has, if he is good enough and committed to the process he could get into Oxbridge.

Be grateful for the advantages your DS has had and good luck to him with the admissions process.

Both DH and I used to be involved with student recruitment, red brick not Oxbridge though DH did study there.

Regarding widening participation, at one point the University I worked in had 35% of its intake from independent schools, 7% of dc are privately educated and that figure has remained relatively steady. This was a while ago but with those figures you can see why they felt they needed to diversify because they were open to criticism.

DH University and the one I used to work in used postcodes as part of their widening participation criteria.

We sent our DS to a below average comp and he achieved all A grades at A level. DH was educated at a top public school, I think fees are now 30k pa, some independent schools are dire. I went to a bog standard comp. DH did want to educate privately but I considered it a bit is a waste of money. We had many a debate.

Your child has the most useful thing going for them, parents that are involved.

There are other many other great universities available. I don't understand your obsession with Oxford.

It is a very elitist attitude.

To be brutal, you went to Oxford and it hasn't resulted in an elevated highly paid job. You would have achieved the same career if you had attended any university.

Why put your DS under so much pressure. Look around at what other universities offer. Oxford doesn't suit everyone and all universities are different.

Thanks @Innocenta that's heartening to hear. She would like to study medicine. She's basically been teaching herself in year 10 and 11. I'm moving towards online school options now for her A levels. I don't want to have to but there you go!

there’s a lot of chance when you apply to oxbridge. Whether he gets in or not should not impact the long term benefit of education on his life.

Does he want to apply for phys natsci or bio natsci ? I think for the phys natsci side there is Isaac physics website (which has some material on physical chemistry). For biology what is he interested in - could he look up some developments in genome sequencing etc which have happened recently?

I think the stats in your OP say it all - about 80 apply each year, of which about 15 get in. I went to a comprehensive which sent a handful to Oxbridge each year. The majority of those who applied got in year after year, which very much suggests that rather more would have had a chance of success had they applied. And this was a comp that at least had Oxbridge on its radar. That so many from your DS's school are encouraged to apply tells its own story about privilege and opportunity.

The staff at his school should be well placed to support him in applying.

He can go to the open days and visit the faculties as well as the colleges.

I went to 2 recent admissions talks at Cambridge open days (Dc is a STEM student), both were emphatic that they are not interested in any non-related extra curricular and just use the personal statement as an ice breaker. They are interested in grades, grades, grades and engagement with subject.

In the end my Dc preferred the course structure / earlier research experience at other Unis (and probably wouldn’t have got in anyway).

he should pick an area he is interested in and read up about it. Anything he puts in his personal statement he should be able to talk about and discuss at reasonable depth - basically don’t put stuff in there to ‘look good’ - as it is fair game for quizzing at interview. That is not to say he won’t get asked additional questions that might be challenging. Work through these logically, think out loud rather than just give random answers. Eg if you are asked how many tennis balls fit in a room or how many nerve impulses occur in a day, then first estimate how many happen in 1 nerve in 1min, then scale up to 1hr then 24hrs. Then take that number and multiply by the your estimate for nerves in the body. Basically talk out loud about how you are solving the problem rather than jus give up and say a huge number.

you see I view this totally differently. Comps by their nature are not academically selective. Most independent schools are academically selective. You’d expect them to have many more potential candidates because of that.

You really need to adjust your mindset on this.

He has ( I hope ) been to a great school, had the opportunity to learn and take part in lots of extracurricular activities, made lifelong friendships and enjoyed his childhood. Oxbridge is great but he will probably have just as good ( better?) time at another university. He should be enjoying the journey rather than just assuming that he needs to go to oxbridge/ get a high flying career etc etc.

I had a similar background.... went to cambridge... first.one to go to uni.... high flying career etc etc so.i know the baggage that.you are carrying around. Just because it was your path it doesnt mean things have gone wrong if he has a different path. I've learnt from speaking to my more established middle class friends that uni choice is about a lot more about than just oxbridge or.not ! Ds is hopefully heading to Glasgow this summer after being rejected by oxford and ucl. I was more gutted than he was by the oxford rejection! He is going to have a great time in glasgow... he loves the city, the course he is going to do and has friends going there too. These things happen for a reason. I also had to get my head around him wanting to do a non vocational degree just because he loves the subject .... this was definitely not an option when I was growing up.....and I'm struggling with that too :)

Zero sympathy from me too. You say you both work full time (presumably one of you works at the private school your son attends given that you have a big discount -?) but don’t have £400 spare. Really?? How do you afford the fees you do pay, plus (expensive) extras?

You yourselves have played along with the system as you believed it would give your son an advantage and now you’re realising that it sometimes doesn’t work that way any more…tough luck. Sob story about parents being immigrants and you won’t have any inheritance - none of that is relevant to your son’s academic or professional future.

Ex-state school and Oxbridge here. The sheer entitlement of some people who can’t believe that sometimes the playing field is actually quite fair - it’s astonishing.

We don’t have £400 for fancy courses.

then how on Earth have you afforded 10 years of private school even with the discount?!

I think it’s fantastic that Oxbridge are now realising that state pupils who meet their entrance requirements have showed much more personal drive and grit than a private school student who has been spoon fed advice on how to get in. And I’m very pleased that private school is now clearly no foregone precursor to a top university place. Sorry 🤷🏼‍♀️

In addition: when my cohort of state school students applied to Oxbridge, there was NO extra, special support or advice given for filling out the application forms or interview practice. Nothing. I didn’t get advice from my family either. We just, you know, did it all by ourselves - which is as it should be.

Of course you haven't done your "poor kid a disservice". He's not in any way disadvantaged for not attending the taster course, he's grown up in the restaurant fgs.

Absolutely. We had no spoon feeding or exam practice. Oxbridge tutors will be very practised in spotting the churned-out, spoon-fed private school kids who are dripping in privilege but can’t sustain an independent thought.