Why is it considered okay to go in for private-school-bashing?

[nellyraggbagg]

I met a friend today, who launched into a full-scale rant against 'shiny private school children'. As my DS is one of these 'shiny private school children', I thought it rather offensive. We are not fabulously wealthy; we don't have a 4WD or designer clothes; we can't afford to go on holiday anywhere, never mind abroad; we have shelved all plans to move house so that we can afford school fees. Why, oh why do people think it's acceptable to be rude to someone because of their school choice? I'd never dream of talking about her 'illiterate, chavvy, hoody state school children'!!

I agree with OrmIrian.

I too went to both private and state schools, and have noticed that prejudice happens on all sides - it's human nature to criticise that which is in direct contrast to your own choice, but that doesn't make one party right or wrong. It's all subjective.

In my area, you get to choose between the crap local comp (DD1 attends) and the other school, for the parents who don't care whether or not their child even attends school. I wish I had a choice, but I fear actually getting to choose a school is a figment of someone's imagination.

Agree with sonnet - frogs post encapsulated why it can be irritating sometimes to talk about this with privately-educating parents

The percentage of passes A* - C at GCSE has been mentioned as a barometer of whether or not a school is any good. I think that is misguided. A lot of schools that score highly at GCSE are in fact not that good as schools they are just good at getting people through those particular exams. I reckon you could train a monkey to pass a GCSE at grade C - especially as the BBC have bitesize revision (that always makes me laugh). I don't want my children to recieve a bitesized education I want something that is well-rounded and thorough - an education that will enhance their lives. I realise not everyone feels the same as me.

a lot of private schools that do well on the GCSE league tables do it by excluding any pupils who may need a bit of extra support.

A lot of state schools also use exclusion or similar methods to get rid of problem children pre-GCSE. DS2's school was noted for this - difficult Y10 and Y11s ended up with a few hours a week at the local tech.

After change of 5 class-teachers in a year, we decided to send our boy to the local Prep school. He did win a scholarship for half the tuition fees otherwise we could not even dream of affording it in our wildest imagination! His new school has students from more diverse ethnic backgrounds as compared to his all-white comprehensive, he receives daily homework which is always marked on the same day, better meals (free), mid-term and end-term exams, more coherent parents-teachers communication, smaller class sizes (20) and more extensive games and activities. Most of the kids are from hardworking, not very rich families and there are less 4wds to pick and drop kids than we used to see on his way to his old school.

At the end of the day, you try and give your child every opportunity, after that it is up to them. I like it when he asks me more mature questions: about Walter Raleigh, Brunnel, about Easter Islands etc. He is more curious now and feels more encouraged. In his previous school, he felt ignored and left out as teachers were more concerned about students who needed to be brought up to the level instead of those who could raise the bar.

The only objection I received was from my very well-meaning and nice neighbour but he objected to the idea of education itself, "There is nothing in education." I had no reply to his remark as I, myself, am a living proof of the truth of his claim but still I have faith in the civilising influence of a good education and for this one reason alone I am willing to give all that I have to educate my children.

Mumsman - I agree entirely.

Some schools are just interested in getting all pupils over the bar - be the bar SATs or GCSEs or A levels or whatever. My sons' school keeps raising the bar to stretch even the brightest students. That is a good school.

The assumption that everyone has, and makes, an informed "choice" irritates me intensely.

UD - You really are a glass half full kind of chap.

Why are people so quick to judge other people's choices, without seeking to understand the rationale?
My Outer London Borough is divided by the River Thames, hence, traffic build up bridges makes secondaries on the 'other side' a dismal journey. On 'our side, there are two state comps, on is C of E and need to accompany the application with a priest's reference - divisive or what? The other is so bad that a friend of mine who came over from Africa to teach there was shocked by the complete lack of discipline and respect for teachers, and now commutes 2 hours to aprivate school where she feeas she is teaching and not just policing.
Also in this borought the state school have no sixth form, so good teachers are less inclined to choose to work here becasue they don't get to teach A level, plus the house prices are exorbitant, so there is high staff turnover.
So, parents opt with their wallets (or more likley re-mortgages) and go private.
One of the points noted by my African friend is that the private sector has much more time in the timetable for spot, so that potential trouble is dispelled by the putative perps being having got rid of their wholly nautral and desirable 'boy energy' outside the classroom in a benign way...

Agree with Lilymaid - go through your school results with a fine tooth comb - the percentage game is a great lie that cons parents every year. All state schools (maybe not the grammars) will have kids that are educated elsewhere ( they have been shoved off to PRUs) so they do not really count. Then there the growing number of Year 10 and Year 11 who are on a reduced school timetable and spend time in the local college. They will only be doing five GCSEs - of which if they are doing something like DIDA that counts are four GCSEs. These kids will only be entered for Maths, English, a Science and ICT (DIDA in a lots of cases)

Then look at what is left. There will not be a teacher in the land who does not fiddle somebody's coursework. We are given such detailed marking grids that pupils can not possibly fail. Plus there are the parents who then either do the coursework or they turn to a private tutor to sort it out over the space of a few weeks.

League tables are not worth the paper they are printed on.

I have bitched a great deal about private schools in the past. I took my kids out of a posh, not private, but posh school, and put them into our local state one. They have been there for 3 years. It is appalling. I have now just managed to schmooze them back into another nicer better posh school than the first one, kind of semi private - well, state, but with a significant 'voluntary' contribution a term per child for extras. If I had met myself 5 years ago I would have given myself a long and failry offensive judgemental lecture on how socially unprogressive I was being blah blah. Now, I don't give a damn. I wish everyone sent their kids to their local state school , but they don't , and until they do, I need to get mine out of there and into a school where some of the staff can spell!!!

I don't think its ok to bash private schools, or non-private schools, or in fact nay of the choices we all make for our kids, but when you've lived near a decent state school, maybe it is really hard to imagine why people go private - it can be perceived as some kind of snootiness, a maintenance of the family's upper classness etc, and whether that is correct or not, its not very nice. But neither is being judged when your sole motivation is doing your best for your kids.

Cannot believe what I have become. I used to be in the SWP!

oo unquietdad, i SO agree with you on that. The notion that everyone can choose their kids school is just bollocks. my kids current school being a case in point - we're well off, speak english, and getting out of there. We are leaving behind children who desperately need so much better - children in care, refugees, children who don't speak english,. children who live with their mums but their social worker takes them to school etc. Those poor kids have no choice whatsoever, and nor do their parents, they cannot afford to move, pay fees,haven't the will nor the wit to fake religion, and so are just stuck. There is nothing wrong with those children or their intelligence, but there is so much wrong with the school they go to. So so sad.

I've just sat through presentation evening for this summer's leavers at DS2's 11-16 state school. Head kept going on about how the school was the best this year in xxxshire for GCSE. Yes, but ... it was the top state school for A-C grades but it didn't "beat" any of the independents, it wasn't the top state school for A/A grades and a large proportion of the students in this affluent and well educated area had received a lot of coaching either from paid tutors or from their parents. Yes, it is quite a good school, but never think that raw statistics will give you the full picture.

Yes, the better private schools get mostly As so being good with A - C is actually a load of failures as C is virtually a fail these days.

All 5 of ours are at or went to private schools as did I.

I liked the shiny comment. I suppose they do often look shinier - the hair seems to be cleaner, the blazers are more expensive and the state school children have a down at heel look about them if you pick random groups and compared, even my scruffy 9 year olds probably look shinier than the local state school children. May be it's a glow caused by all the sport and the healthy school compulsory school meals.

As for why she was tactless - some people just are. You could say you have moral objections to state provision of anything and you're disgusted people are left wing enough to think the state should provide things like education may be and that she's wasting state funds by taking up a place when she should be taking on a second job and paying for her own child's education in the private system. That her choice of state education is morally wrong and offensive to you.

Few school pupils could possibly look as down at heel as the boys at DS1's old independent school. School uniform gets passed down or resold at school shop if not wrecked in play/messing about. But it is one of the best academically in the country. The boys look intelligent ... but grubby.

May be but I think overall even in boys like that (and I've had 13 - 15 year old son and his friends and know the look, no interest in washing hair or anything, second hand uniforms) they still have a kind of aura or patina of being from a private school home somehow. It's hard to put into words. Perhaps it's simply that the uniform started out as better quality than the state school versions if if it's now very old. Like a 30 year old jacket your father wore that was good in its day compared with Asda's finest.

Xenia - This thing you have about "better uniforms" is not true. I was just saying the other day that one of our local comps has real wool tweed blazers wheares my sons' (Independent) school blazers are 100% manmade and look terrible after a term's wear. Both schools have the same school jumper which is of good quality. My friend's son goes to Habs boys' (which is I think where you said your son went) and his blazer is 100% manmade as well.
LOL @ public school boys looking grubby in a better way to their comprehensively educated contemporaries.

Swedes, we are the proud owners of a collection of disgusting bottle green polyester Ds went off looking like a Bash Street Kid this morning as he insists on wearing shorts too
But it washes well, isn't too expensive or mirth-inducing, so we're happy, if aesthetically challenged

Blimey Xenia. I'd love to know how I managed to get that private school patina on DS1 (but not on DS2 who was then at a state school). Was it the particular M&S shirts I chose, the Clarks/Start Rite shoes or was it just the school polyester tie and jacket (once tweed and great for scarecrows, now replaced by polyester). Did the sales assistant in John Lewis know when I came in that I needed extra patina-d school clothing for DS1 but common as muck for DS2? Maybe it was the fabric conditioner [goes away very confused ...]

"aura or patina of being from a private school home somehow"

LOL!

Some of our sweatshirts are so patina'd they dazzle in the winter sunshine

When my dds look particularly shiny and groomed it's usually due to another outbreak of headlice - necessitating in endless hair washing and conditioning and combing.

I have a feeling this is the wrong, state-school sort of aura.

Was watching Frogs' DCs and my DSs zoom around together on Saturday and thought they all had a very nice patina, thank you very much.

Xenia's stance reminds me of the late Alan Clark sneering at Micheal Heseltine for having to buy his own furniture.