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School complaint advice

170 replies

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 00:59

Hi everyone,

I have an eight year old DD who has always lived with me and visits her mum on alternate weekends. She is in public primary school and sometimes goes to the after-school club, which I pay for and is in my name. The club rents rooms at the school but are legally separate and have their own management, rules, staff, etc.

One day last month, DD was sent to the club at 3:15pm as usual and her mum should have collected her at 4:45pm as she has always done. The club called at 3:30pm to confirm that DD had arrived at the club. Her mum turns up at 3:40pm instead of 4:45pm and contacted the headteacher who is still on site, instead of contacting the club. The headteacher goes to the club claiming she has authority to remove children as she is a headteacher and, as no club manager was there, no club staff stopped her taking DD out and handing her over to her mum (the club later confirmed all this in writing). No-one contacts me at any point about this, not even DD's mum. The club later called to say DD is no longer at the club and that she was not collected by her mum. I call the police as I do not know where DD is, but find out minutes later that she is with her mum.

There are safeguarding issues with DD's mum. Both the school and club had agreed to contact me first if there were any changes to existing plans, particularly with respect to DD's mum. Neither the school nor the club contacted me. Club rules are that only authorised people can remove DD from the club (i.e. me and her mum) and that passwords must be used otherwise. There is nothing in school policies about school staff being able to remove children from any club or activity outside school hours.

Social Services became involved, interviewed DD who said she did not want to be removed from the club and was not happy about being taken out by the headteacher in-front of her friends, rather than being taken out of another exit by club staff as usual. The assigned Social Worker advised issuing formal complaints to the club and school and referred me on to the Education Safeguarding Team within the local authority. The Education Safeguarding Team said the headteacher had already been in contact to say that DD was at school and that she had handed DD to her mum at 3:15pm, and that the issue was about me trying to stop DD from seeing her mum. I told them that DD was actually in the club and the headteacher had no authority to remove her, and offered the evidence on this from the club and Social Services reports. I have had nothing back from them yet.

The club has since essentially admitted they were at fault for releasing DD to an unauthorised person, but only after they were told they would be inspected by the ombudsman as a result of what happened.

The school have refused to comment on the matter, stating that the incident and my subsequent complaint is not within their remit. This was followed by a complaint by the headteacher that I had threatened her job, which I had not. Part of the school complaint procedure states that they do not necessarily have to respond to staff behaviour outside of school hours. I suspect they are trying to use this to avoid the issue by claiming that the headteacher was acting outside of school and so she cannot be disciplined.

If the teacher went to the club outside of school hours claiming to have authority over them as a headteacher, so clearly stating that she was acting on behalf of the school, but the school say it was outside of school hours and so it is not within their remit to respond to the complaint, what should I do? I was thinking that if she was technically outside of school and not acting as school staff then I could contact the police to give her a warning about trying to remove children from the club as an unauthorised person. I also thought about contacting my MP or the Education Minister and basically forcing the issue that the school must consider my complaint as she said she was acting on behalf of the school. Does anyone have any advice on this, or any other ideas?

It has become worse since, as the headteacher now says that neither she nor the deputy headteacher will communicate with me anymore and that the only way I can communicate with the school is to issue formal complaints via the Chair of Governors. Emails I sent to the school have been sent to the Chair of Governors, who has said that I need to break each email down into a single question or issue and raise each one as a separate complaint. The majority are simple questions such as "what email address should I send this to?" and "Why was DD not allowed to wear trainers to her PE lesson?". I have been forced to lodge 23 'complaints' so far, and the Chair of Governors has said that he will now carry out a full investigation into each one individually and to expect a response sometime after Christmas. I have told him how bizarre this all is, but he says that he and the school are simply following procedure. However, I suspect that this is all being done as revenge because I issued a complaint and the school are simply trying to make things difficult.

Because they were not communicating with me, I have been making Freedom of Information requests each week which they have to comply with. However, the school are currently refusing to release any records with respect to DD being taken out of the club by the headteacher stating that they are unable to do so because I issued a complaint. However, I now have records which show that DD was recently unwell at school, was excluded from a school activity and was essentially punished for wearing a certain item of clothing, even though the clothing is school approved. The school had not contacted me about any of these at the time but, as we now have a Social Worker, had been sending reports to Social Services claiming that these incidents were evidence that I abuse and neglect DD. The school also sent these records to DD's mum when they were released to me who has raised concerns with Social Services that I abuse and neglect DD based on what the school says, but also raised concerns with the school that they were refusing to communicate with her also. The Social Worker has essentially said that what they are sending is not all that important at the moment. I then raised a safeguarding concern with how DD is being treated at school with Social Services, which got sent to the Education Safeguarding Team, which I am still yet to hear from.

Does anyone have any advice on where to go from here? I did start looking into whether I could take the school to court just to obtain a court order forcing them to communicate with me, but I do not really think that is possible. I also thought about going to the press to publicise it all. I could take DD out of the school, but she really likes it there and has lots of friends and she's having a hard enough time with the whole situation, being interviewed by Social Services, etc, as it is. The next nearest school with spaces is 14 miles away which is not the easiest given that this school is less than a mile. In a way, I think that the school are acting this way to try and force us out anyway which makes me all the more determined to keep her there.

OP posts:
user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 14:45

@DougRossIsTheBoss

Well I can see why you'd be anxious with the extra info but I still think your main issue is with ASC who should not have allowed the head to collect.

I am not to sure why the head involved herself and I'm sure she wishes she hadn't now but I still can't see how it's such a massive safeguarding issue to give the child to a parent who she'd have been with 30mins later in any case.

I would not instantly assume the head lied more that she did not accurately recall a 30min difference.

I still say that your subsequent behaviour is counter productive. A secure email address?? It's a school not MI5. Obviously the head won't give you her personal address and how would that be secure in any case.

The likely reason they would decline to communicate with you directly is if you harassed them and were threatening and inflammatory. Like your tone in the OP.

Allowing it to escalate to 23 complaints and weekly FOI requests is literally batshit crazy behaviour that no normal human being would engage in. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the original incident you surely must see that behaving like that is just insane and counterproductive.
Why on earth not just ask for a meeting like any normal person?

I know the ASC was wrong, so do they. The difference between them and the school is that they apologised and started an investigation on the same day which, although the ombudsman got involved, has essentially been resolved and I have no issue with them now. The school just will not admit they were wrong.

The school has generic email addresses which are read by lots of different staff. E.g. you send emails to the 'class' not 'teacher'. The school had previously said that they need to review information and only pass what is needed to class teachers. Obviously, I don't want to email the class or generic admin addresses. However, I now have the headteachers personal work email, so just send it there now - not sure if that's what I am meant to do, but at least it's a single person.

Social Services advised everything be in writing, I guess she said that because she thought things may end up in court where we are now and it may need to be evidenced. Also, there is a difference in what the headteacher is saying to different people and she did claim I had threatened her job when I had not, although that allegation seems to have disappeared now.

OP posts:
Flvq · 13/12/2020 14:47

I’d suggest you get counselling for yourself too to explore why you continually pick such unstable partners.

Good luck.

Soontobe60 · 13/12/2020 14:48

Honestly, I’m exhausted reading all your posts! There’s so much in it that is so unbelievable that I cant even begin to address it. headteachers are generally the safeguarding leads in primary schools, and know the laws around safeguarding inside out. It sounds very much like the after school club has made an error - your DD wasn’t with them so they phoned you up. In my school, they would have spoken to school staff who would have done a check to see where the child was last seen. If a parent comes to school early for their child, its perfectly reasonable for school staff to go and collect the child and bring them to the parent. Obviously SS are not that concerned about the mother, as she IS able to collect her daughter on set days. If she was such a high safeguarding risk she would not be able to do this at all. SS would not take a school to court for this type of incident - certainly not as an emergency measure. They would only do so if the child had been physically harmed and had been removed from parental care.

NerrSnerr · 13/12/2020 14:49

How many children do you have and how many exes? Either you're telling porkies or you're the common denominator.

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 14:53

@vdbfamily

I am not sure people are reading the thread. OP wrote 2 letters to school mainly giving them info/context about daughter and current situation. School insist that these are broken into seperate statements and sent to Chair of Governors via complaints procedure. OP says they were not complaints, just statements about DD and situation and now he is being berated for making 23 complaints!!! OP sounds like a nightmare. I have experience of a HT who took any questioning of her authority and actions very personally. She was known to shout at parents on the playground and was never very confidential about issues. It was a very painful time for the school and yes she did make life as awkward as possible for parents she did not like. One day she walked out and never came back. This was when her actions started to be challenged. It sounds to me like she made a mistake which she did not wish to own up to and so hopes to make things annoying enough for you to consider withdrawing DD. But you both need to be centred on DD who sounds like she is happy there so maybe you need to request mediation with HT which focusses on finding a way forward.
The headteacher is known as someone who cannot accept she has done any wrong. She recently swore during the livestream of Christmas concert - She did not think the recording had started and was swearing at the computer because it was not doing what she wanted. The recording was on Youtube and the school were very slow at removing it and so many people heard it and lots of parents, grandparents, etc, complaint. Headteacher said she did not swear, it was just a poor quality recording which merged two words into one making it sound like she swore. I think this is the real problem, she cannot accept she was wrong and is just taking revenge.
OP posts:
DougRossIsTheBoss · 13/12/2020 14:54

What level of communication do you consider reasonable?

I send my kid to school and I pick him up at the end of the day and my expectation is no news is good news. I expect a report once a year and a termly 10mins parents evening. That is what is normal. If something is wrong that is worth noting then I call them or they call me.

Expecting weekly written reports is an insane level of expectation. Of course it's too much work. There are 30 kids in the class. The teacher cannot produce a detailed weekly report for each and every one. Even in a private school you wouldn't get that.

If a court orders the school to produce records or reports then they should send it to the court not to you personally and it would be disclosed to the parties by their solicitors.

If I were the school teacher and you made weekly SAR requests I would try not to write anything down so there would be nothing to disclose. Teachers don't keep some kind of running record of each kids day anyway. What you are asking to have disclosed must be safeguarding concern reports I guess. These would indeed not always be routinely discussed with parents as some (trainers and tummy ache) are too low level to mean anything on their own. They are recorded to build a picture. This is routine and means nothing. I expect my kid has a few 'crying on drop off' 'mum forgot packed lunch'
Don't read more into things than you need to. It makes you sound crazy really it does.

Clymene · 13/12/2020 14:58

Gosh that really does put quite a different slant on things @SilverBirchWithout. What a lot of abusive and incompetent mothers the OP seems to be involved with Hmm

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 15:03

@NerrSnerr

How many children do you have and how many exes? Either you're telling porkies or you're the common denominator.
One ex, one child - I am asking about my own situation.

I have posted on behalf of two other guy friends I have who each have one child and one ex and have been in other situations. One ended up with residency, the other with shared-care. Mumsnet is often seen as an 'anti-men/fathers' platform but there are a minority of helpful people here that give useful advice. There are also a lot of haters out there who just assume that, if you're a man, then it must be your fault. But there are lots of people here with a lot of experience for different areas of life and, really, where else can you use as a soundboard or get some informal advice for free? I've posted here as them (because, if you say I am here on behalf of a friend, you get a lot of criticism) just to find the one or two comments that are helpful for them. To be honest, when they see all the hate in their responses they don't really want to take it any further and so there's nothing more I can do with it.

OP posts:
ChloeDecker · 13/12/2020 15:05

One ex, one child - I am asking about my own situation.

I have posted on behalf of two other guy friends I have who each have one child and one ex and have been in other situations.

So no one on here can really believe what you say, to be honest. You could be taking about a ‘friend’ right now too.

CabinClose · 13/12/2020 15:06

Gosh, I feel exhausted at the idea of being on the receiving end of your communication. How old is your daughter? How long has she been at the school?

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 15:09

@ChloeDecker

One ex, one child - I am asking about my own situation.

I have posted on behalf of two other guy friends I have who each have one child and one ex and have been in other situations.

So no one on here can really believe what you say, to be honest. You could be taking about a ‘friend’ right now too.

I am anonymous here anyway, why does it matter if I am describing my friend's situation or my situation, the situation is still the same and, like everyone else, I am here for advice. If you don't want to believe what I say, then that's fine. I don't have to believe what you say either.
OP posts:
cansu · 13/12/2020 15:12

OP
If you look at what has actually happened, you should be able to see that your reaction ahs been excessive.

  1. Your ex arrived early and went to the school rather than the club, maybe because she thought she would be at the school still? Whatever the reason, the head collected your dd and handed her over. I cannot for the life of me understand how it is that the afterschool club phoned and said they didn't know where your daughter was. Surely the head would have said dd's mum is here, I'll walk her over. That being the case, you knew fine where your child was so why did you ring the police?

After this, you seem to have gone completely overboard complaining to everyone and making a massive fuss to the degree that school are now avoiding any communication with you.

Seriously you need to have a think about what is best for your dd and your family in this. This is not going to end well.

BerriesAndPineCones · 13/12/2020 15:13

The poor school probably wish they had the funds to employ someone full time to deal with your ongoing hounding of them. As if they dont have enough to deal with in the middle of a pandemic

BerriesAndPineCones · 13/12/2020 15:14

You'll probably feel very smug if you successfully get the Head to go off sick with stress. Sad

DougRossIsTheBoss · 13/12/2020 15:17

So you just want the head to apologise. Is that the outcome you want?
Can you not see that a weekly FOI request and endless complaints make that less and not more likely.

I suggest that you either remove DD and start over elsewhere

Or

You retract some of the silly stuff about PE shoes and tummy aches and stop doing weekly SARs for the love of god.
Then you ask for a meeting with the head and CoG to clear the air and address the real concerns.

It seems like you have real well founded concerns about DDs contact with her mum
But the fact remains a court considered it to be in her best interests
A very minor change to that contact has caused you all kinds of anxiety. That is understandable but your reaction is really OTT and unhelpful.
You should apologise too for reacting in this accusatory way and then maybe the head can apologise for not realising that even a very minor change to contact was not OK and you can make a way forward

That's all that happened here

The recording of small concerns in schools is a routine process especially for children on some kind of CP or CIN plan or with a history of safeguarding concerns. It does not mean they are against you or on mums side or accusing you of anything at all. Such matters are not routinely discussed with or disclosed to parents and the reporting is not an either or anyway. They could discuss it with you and still have to record it.

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 15:20

Well, I think I have what I need. Thanks to all those who gave me useful advice which I will certainly use. I am not sure I can post the actual outcome here as it will probably just result in people questioning it all or seeking information which I probably cannot give out publicly.

Like I said before, it's a good soundboard to get lots of opinions and at least I've had the opportunity to explain the situation a little better. Mumsnet is a good platform, it's just a shame it has an anti-men/father reputation really which isn't helped by some of the people here who post.

Everything seems to be going off-topic now anyway as posters are picking out irrelevant things or asking questions which are not so important. Some people are saying they are exhausted at reading all this so I will end it here. I have no doubt there will be comments of "OP will not respond", but I have other things to do.

Hope you all have a good Christmas and New Years.

OP posts:
cookiecuttercreamandbutter · 13/12/2020 15:45

I still can't see how it's such a massive safeguarding issue to give the child to a parent who she'd have been with 30mins later in any case.

I can. And it was longer than that.

We don't know the nature of the restrictions but that later time might have been picked to coincide with mum's parenting support becoming available, or just to reduce the time to a manageable chunk. This gives her the opportunity to go AWOL with the child when there are clearly serious issues with her having the child at all.

It sounds like you've been sent round the houses to keep you busy, OP. They should certainly sort out the lax safeguarding but it sounds like SS are already putting that point across for you.

cookiecuttercreamandbutter · 13/12/2020 15:51

I cannot for the life of me understand how it is that the afterschool club phoned and said they didn't know where your daughter was. Surely the head would have said dd's mum is here, I'll walk her over. That being the case, you knew fine where your child was so why did you ring the police?

How irrational. You can't understand why the club would have done this so you assume he's lying ("That being the case, you knew fine where your child was") and challenge him for reacting to what you've decided must really have happened?!

Why don't you make everything else up too and tell him what he should have done next?

Personally I think I would certainly call the police if my child had such a carefully managed plan for her safeguarding, with SS involved, and I received a call saying she was no longer on site but hadn't left with mum (I might have called if she had left with mum actually, depending on why mum hasn't got custody).

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 13/12/2020 15:58

@BerriesAndPineCones

You'll probably feel very smug if you successfully get the Head to go off sick with stress. Sad
The head could've easily admitted the mistake,apologise, say she understands the situation,it won't happen again and agree to keep OP informed if this happens again if it happens again as per their agreement.

Yes the situation is ridiculous and has escalated immensely. It could've been easily sorted in one conversation.

HebeMumsnet · 13/12/2020 20:02

Evening, all. We're going to close this thread to new posts now. We can't quite work out the purpose of the discussion right now, and whether it's a reverse or something else, but it looks like the OP has had plenty of useful answers now, so there's little to be gained from it continuing to run.

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