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School complaint advice

170 replies

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 00:59

Hi everyone,

I have an eight year old DD who has always lived with me and visits her mum on alternate weekends. She is in public primary school and sometimes goes to the after-school club, which I pay for and is in my name. The club rents rooms at the school but are legally separate and have their own management, rules, staff, etc.

One day last month, DD was sent to the club at 3:15pm as usual and her mum should have collected her at 4:45pm as she has always done. The club called at 3:30pm to confirm that DD had arrived at the club. Her mum turns up at 3:40pm instead of 4:45pm and contacted the headteacher who is still on site, instead of contacting the club. The headteacher goes to the club claiming she has authority to remove children as she is a headteacher and, as no club manager was there, no club staff stopped her taking DD out and handing her over to her mum (the club later confirmed all this in writing). No-one contacts me at any point about this, not even DD's mum. The club later called to say DD is no longer at the club and that she was not collected by her mum. I call the police as I do not know where DD is, but find out minutes later that she is with her mum.

There are safeguarding issues with DD's mum. Both the school and club had agreed to contact me first if there were any changes to existing plans, particularly with respect to DD's mum. Neither the school nor the club contacted me. Club rules are that only authorised people can remove DD from the club (i.e. me and her mum) and that passwords must be used otherwise. There is nothing in school policies about school staff being able to remove children from any club or activity outside school hours.

Social Services became involved, interviewed DD who said she did not want to be removed from the club and was not happy about being taken out by the headteacher in-front of her friends, rather than being taken out of another exit by club staff as usual. The assigned Social Worker advised issuing formal complaints to the club and school and referred me on to the Education Safeguarding Team within the local authority. The Education Safeguarding Team said the headteacher had already been in contact to say that DD was at school and that she had handed DD to her mum at 3:15pm, and that the issue was about me trying to stop DD from seeing her mum. I told them that DD was actually in the club and the headteacher had no authority to remove her, and offered the evidence on this from the club and Social Services reports. I have had nothing back from them yet.

The club has since essentially admitted they were at fault for releasing DD to an unauthorised person, but only after they were told they would be inspected by the ombudsman as a result of what happened.

The school have refused to comment on the matter, stating that the incident and my subsequent complaint is not within their remit. This was followed by a complaint by the headteacher that I had threatened her job, which I had not. Part of the school complaint procedure states that they do not necessarily have to respond to staff behaviour outside of school hours. I suspect they are trying to use this to avoid the issue by claiming that the headteacher was acting outside of school and so she cannot be disciplined.

If the teacher went to the club outside of school hours claiming to have authority over them as a headteacher, so clearly stating that she was acting on behalf of the school, but the school say it was outside of school hours and so it is not within their remit to respond to the complaint, what should I do? I was thinking that if she was technically outside of school and not acting as school staff then I could contact the police to give her a warning about trying to remove children from the club as an unauthorised person. I also thought about contacting my MP or the Education Minister and basically forcing the issue that the school must consider my complaint as she said she was acting on behalf of the school. Does anyone have any advice on this, or any other ideas?

It has become worse since, as the headteacher now says that neither she nor the deputy headteacher will communicate with me anymore and that the only way I can communicate with the school is to issue formal complaints via the Chair of Governors. Emails I sent to the school have been sent to the Chair of Governors, who has said that I need to break each email down into a single question or issue and raise each one as a separate complaint. The majority are simple questions such as "what email address should I send this to?" and "Why was DD not allowed to wear trainers to her PE lesson?". I have been forced to lodge 23 'complaints' so far, and the Chair of Governors has said that he will now carry out a full investigation into each one individually and to expect a response sometime after Christmas. I have told him how bizarre this all is, but he says that he and the school are simply following procedure. However, I suspect that this is all being done as revenge because I issued a complaint and the school are simply trying to make things difficult.

Because they were not communicating with me, I have been making Freedom of Information requests each week which they have to comply with. However, the school are currently refusing to release any records with respect to DD being taken out of the club by the headteacher stating that they are unable to do so because I issued a complaint. However, I now have records which show that DD was recently unwell at school, was excluded from a school activity and was essentially punished for wearing a certain item of clothing, even though the clothing is school approved. The school had not contacted me about any of these at the time but, as we now have a Social Worker, had been sending reports to Social Services claiming that these incidents were evidence that I abuse and neglect DD. The school also sent these records to DD's mum when they were released to me who has raised concerns with Social Services that I abuse and neglect DD based on what the school says, but also raised concerns with the school that they were refusing to communicate with her also. The Social Worker has essentially said that what they are sending is not all that important at the moment. I then raised a safeguarding concern with how DD is being treated at school with Social Services, which got sent to the Education Safeguarding Team, which I am still yet to hear from.

Does anyone have any advice on where to go from here? I did start looking into whether I could take the school to court just to obtain a court order forcing them to communicate with me, but I do not really think that is possible. I also thought about going to the press to publicise it all. I could take DD out of the school, but she really likes it there and has lots of friends and she's having a hard enough time with the whole situation, being interviewed by Social Services, etc, as it is. The next nearest school with spaces is 14 miles away which is not the easiest given that this school is less than a mile. In a way, I think that the school are acting this way to try and force us out anyway which makes me all the more determined to keep her there.

OP posts:
Hercwasonaroll · 13/12/2020 13:44

How did HT know to go and get her then if mum wasn't involved?

It sounds like better management of the club is needed so that they all know if a dc has left.

I'd have made my point to the club/school and moved on. None of this is helping.

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 13:45

Sorry, for Schoolchoicesucks, should say agreement says I am to be contact if DD's mother cancels or tries to collect outside this time (for example, tries to collect from school at end of school say instead of club). This is all there to offer DD some security in where she is going and who she is going home with at the end of the school day.

OP posts:
Flvq · 13/12/2020 13:49

But why did they phone you to say dd was at club?

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 13:52

@Hercwasonaroll

How did HT know to go and get her then if mum wasn't involved?

It sounds like better management of the club is needed so that they all know if a dc has left.

I'd have made my point to the club/school and moved on. None of this is helping.

Headteacher's says that DD was still in school, not club, and DD was handed to mum at 3:15pm at school gates.

Club say she was there (and this is confirmed) until 3:40pm. They say headteacher turned up to take DD away. No mention of parents being at the school.

DD says headteacher turned up and took her away at 3:40pm with no explanation why.

DD's mum says she called the school 'earlier' and headteacher was at gate when she arrived. Headteacher say it was 3:15pm, Club and DD say it was 3:45pm.

OP posts:
Hercwasonaroll · 13/12/2020 13:53

Ah OK that all sounds rather different to your first post.

HT has fucked up then.

You now need to work out what you want from the HT. Is an apology enough?

Flvq · 13/12/2020 13:54

Why can the child’s mother not collect her earlier? What does the court order say re contact?

LaLaLandIsNoFun · 13/12/2020 13:54

@user1483311479

No, I’m not making assumptions.

You said in your OP that mum sees DD on weekends and that she was due to pick DD up from school.

All I’ve done I read your OP.

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 13:54

@Flvq

But why did they phone you to say dd was at club?
It is part of the agreement, but also something they do if you ask. They also should (and now do) tell you when your child has left (if not with you) by text message.
OP posts:
user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 13:58

[quote LaLaLandIsNoFun]@user1483311479

No, I’m not making assumptions.

You said in your OP that mum sees DD on weekends and that she was due to pick DD up from school.

All I’ve done I read your OP.[/quote]
Ok, if you want me to be more specific. DD's mum has had alternating weekend contact since September this year. It is 'supported' contact (DD's mum has other people to help her look after DD). It is now continuing but with some specific court ordered conditions.

This would also explain why we've not really been in this situation before. All orders, agreements, etc, were put into place for September for school to make this into a routine so DD see's her mum. However, there are incidents outside school, and in school if you count this, which means it's not going so well.

OP posts:
Solidaritea · 13/12/2020 14:04

It sounds like you have very legitimate reasons to be concerned about your daughter. Make sure you focus on them. Putting complaints about missing one PE lesson is going to distract the school from focusing on your legitimate issue regarding child arrangement orders.

Your first step should be to ensure that you are confident that both school and after school club are certain about collection arrangements and to get new arrangements in writing.

Then comply with social services.

Leave minor issues like an hour of PE out of it, as it gives people the impression that the first few posters got.

LolaSmiles · 13/12/2020 14:04

It sounds like the head has overstepped in my opinion. If a child is in an after school club that is a separate entity from the school then the head has not got the authority to remove any child from the after school childcare.

It does sound like you've lost some perspective on the overall situation OP, but equally it does sound like the after school club have released a child they shouldn't have, the head has misused their authority and the school is being quite petty if they are saying you need to ask every question formally through the governing body.

DougRossIsTheBoss · 13/12/2020 14:05

Not attending PE because of lack of appropriate kit is not a punishment.
It's just a consequence of not having correct kit.
Schools have brought in different regulations to avoid kids changing for PE together due to Covid. Our school is telling pupils to attend in their PE kit and not allowing them to change in school any more. I expect yours is the same and that you'd be aware of that.

Not telling you she was ill seems unlikely especially in Covid times. If she was properly ill they'd call you to collect. If she just felt a bit off colour but seemed OK then maybe they'd try encourage her to continue and it was not of a level that they should need to inform you of.

What is not normal is you having all her records and scrutinising every tiny aspect of her school day like this. No school could continue to work with a parent who behaves like this.

I think you need to move her to a new school as the relationship has broken down very clearly. I mean they are not going to get a new head just because you don't like this one and have a vendetta against her over one tiny issue.
Maybe technically the head should not have collected her but it's very hard to see what harm was actually done by her going to her mum an hour early so your response just looks like a huge over reaction.
ASC were the ones at fault for releasing her and they already admitted that so why do you need the head to apologise too?

Think what outcome do you actually want from this complaint?
If you want an apology you clearly aren't going to get one and why does it matter so much to you anyhow?
If you want to be able to communicate better with the school then you are not going to manage that with the approach you are currently taking.

LaLaLandIsNoFun · 13/12/2020 14:08

Right - with that explanation things now look quite different from your OP.

MistletoeandMoccasins · 13/12/2020 14:12

Not sure why the OP has had such a hard time on here - the headteacher could have nipped this in the bud by apologising from the off - if they removed a child from an extra-curricular activity to hand over to another parent when there are known safeguarding issues (usually flagged up on sims) then they have overstepped/have royally screwed up.
To then insist all communications to go via governors is somewhat impractical (unless the LA have advised this).
Because of Covid-19, pupils in many (not all) secondaries are expected to come in full P.E. kit to avoid the need for changing rooms. I did not know that primaries were following suit.
It does seem rather petty that if trainers were on site and pupil was already track-suited that it was deemed necessary for them to sit out: I would be questioning that too.
The relationship with the headteacher is effectively over but objectively could be managed if an apology is made and accepted wrt the original error and if communications between reception/parent are restored?

Schoolchoicesucks · 13/12/2020 14:13

OP, thanks, your posts have clarified some information.

There is a written agreement between the school, club, you and the mum so that the mum does not collect your dd from school without you being informed.

So the Head should not have handed your dd over to her mum at 3.15 (as she is claiming) or collected her from the club and handed her over (as your dd and the club claim) without you being informed.

The club have messed up too, in not recording or communicating with each other when your dd was allowed to leave with the Head. I can't imagine how frightening it would have been for you to get that call saying they had lost your dd.

Those 2 points should be your concerns.

Forget the missed PE and the other 20 questions that are unimportant. Make sure that both the school and the club are clear with what the process should be for collection, who they should contact if things change or your dd is ill at school.

LaLaLandIsNoFun · 13/12/2020 14:14

If I were you I’d drop the complaints relating to stuff such as not having the correct PE kit - bit of a misrepresentation to claim DD was being punished, though isn’t it?

Head obviously needs to comply with whatever the court order says if it is that specific.

Obviously communication has broken down between you and school.

If it were me I’d speak with CoG and apologise for being in so many other issues snd losing perspective and focused only in the court order, what it says, and your concerns that head was ignoring. I’d include a copy of the order in that communication so CoG has it in front of them and then ask for a plan on how it is going to be stuck to.

mooncakes · 13/12/2020 14:22

I would move your DD to a new school, the relationship with this one has totally broken down.

DougRossIsTheBoss · 13/12/2020 14:24

Well I can see why you'd be anxious with the extra info but I still think your main issue is with ASC who should not have allowed the head to collect.

I am not to sure why the head involved herself and I'm sure she wishes she hadn't now but I still can't see how it's such a massive safeguarding issue to give the child to a parent who she'd have been with 30mins later in any case.

I would not instantly assume the head lied more that she did not accurately recall a 30min difference.

I still say that your subsequent behaviour is counter productive. A secure email address?? It's a school not MI5. Obviously the head won't give you her personal address and how would that be secure in any case.

The likely reason they would decline to communicate with you directly is if you harassed them and were threatening and inflammatory. Like your tone in the OP.

Allowing it to escalate to 23 complaints and weekly FOI requests is literally batshit crazy behaviour that no normal human being would engage in. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the original incident you surely must see that behaving like that is just insane and counterproductive.
Why on earth not just ask for a meeting like any normal person?

Flvq · 13/12/2020 14:26

Ok so it needs to go back to court which it is doing.

The relationship with the school seems to have completely broken down and you might be best to look for a new school for your dd.

Flvq · 13/12/2020 14:27

Weekly foi requests is vexatious and they would be quite within their rights not to respond.

DubbinDobbin · 13/12/2020 14:29

It sounds like the trainer incident is a bit of a non-event, I mean I do see why you feel it was unfair. But was DD was supposed to come to school wearing them, was she supposed to be in PE kit too?. A lot of schools have policy of children not changing at school now. I think saying she couldn't participate because she didn't have the correct clothing is not an unusual stance. It can seem overly harsh but within limits IMO.

The weekly FOI (though are they actually SARs) is too much and the ICO would probably support the school in saying they wouldn't have to comply. There are limits on this kind of thing.

The head claiming DD hadn't attended the club is a massive thing. That there are court orders and SS makes it even stranger behaviour

Leaving it hours to ring about illness is not good, but does happen.

The Afterschool Club sounds chaotic to say she wasn't there but didn't know who had taken her, but not her mum. It may well be because of a poor communication between staff but I'm surprised a member of staff would ring you to report that, it sounds a very casual approach to a serious issue.

I am coming at this as someone who has had a total breakdown between home and school relationship, and have been on the end of some breathtakingly unprofessional conduct. We ended up moving the kids. It was a different situation as it involved a SENDIst tribunal etc so I had the opportunity to expose all the lies. I never actually complained directly to the school though, I was advised a narrative was being pushed that I was difficult and awkward so I had to ignore a lot whilst it was going on.

It is easy for it to feel that all the events are linked but I do think this stuff will sometimes just happen, like the trainers and the illness. You might also have to consider that how they perceive your behaviour means only certain staff will be prepared to speak to you.

I know a move would be difficult but I would really seriously consider it.

user1483311479 · 13/12/2020 14:31

@DougRossIsTheBoss

Not attending PE because of lack of appropriate kit is not a punishment. It's just a consequence of not having correct kit. Schools have brought in different regulations to avoid kids changing for PE together due to Covid. Our school is telling pupils to attend in their PE kit and not allowing them to change in school any more. I expect yours is the same and that you'd be aware of that.

Not telling you she was ill seems unlikely especially in Covid times. If she was properly ill they'd call you to collect. If she just felt a bit off colour but seemed OK then maybe they'd try encourage her to continue and it was not of a level that they should need to inform you of.

What is not normal is you having all her records and scrutinising every tiny aspect of her school day like this. No school could continue to work with a parent who behaves like this.

I think you need to move her to a new school as the relationship has broken down very clearly. I mean they are not going to get a new head just because you don't like this one and have a vendetta against her over one tiny issue.
Maybe technically the head should not have collected her but it's very hard to see what harm was actually done by her going to her mum an hour early so your response just looks like a huge over reaction.
ASC were the ones at fault for releasing her and they already admitted that so why do you need the head to apologise too?

Think what outcome do you actually want from this complaint?
If you want an apology you clearly aren't going to get one and why does it matter so much to you anyhow?
If you want to be able to communicate better with the school then you are not going to manage that with the approach you are currently taking.

Ok, maybe the PE thing isn't much of an issue, but no rules on not changing shoes in any letters from school.

The illness was apparently a stomach ache which my daughter had for at least three hours. She has previously been physically sick in school with the same symptoms (before Covid and school contacted me then). School records state that parents not be contacted.

I didn't make the request for school records, they were just handed to me at the school gate one morning mid-November - I think this was the court, or maybe Social Services and I got them because I have PR. They are incomplete, I think that's why Social Services are now asking the court to order all records be released. Since then I have been submitting Freedom of Information requests each week to get up-to-date records and have been advised to respond to any concerns they note so that they have my response on record, essentially by the court. I appreciate that the school may have policies on not sharing all information with parents, but the courts and social workers (remember, ours does not deal with education) find the lack of communication all very alarming. And, to be honest, so do I and DD's mum. But, I think the whole 'communication' issue will be addressed in court anyway.

I know this is a bit off-topic, but the excuse why schools do not communicate with parents seems to be that they have no time to do so. I really do not understand this - A teacher has to sit down, write a report, send that report to the headteacher, the headteacher reviews the report, add's their comments and, in some case I've seen, contacts Social Services and then sends them the report. How is this more time efficient than a two minute phone call to a parent to resolve an issue? I have no issues with the class teacher or admin, and they are the people who call parents, not the headteacher. I've even popped down to the school to drop off things during the school day without issue anyway.

OP posts:
vdbfamily · 13/12/2020 14:39

I am not sure people are reading the thread. OP wrote 2 letters to school mainly giving them info/context about daughter and current situation. School insist that these are broken into seperate statements and sent to Chair of Governors via complaints procedure. OP says they were not complaints, just statements about DD and situation and now he is being berated for making 23 complaints!!!
OP sounds like a nightmare. I have experience of a HT who took any questioning of her authority and actions very personally. She was known to shout at parents on the playground and was never very confidential about issues. It was a very painful time for the school and yes she did make life as awkward as possible for parents she did not like. One day she walked out and never came back. This was when her actions started to be challenged. It sounds to me like she made a mistake which she did not wish to own up to and so hopes to make things annoying enough for you to consider withdrawing DD. But you both need to be centred on DD who sounds like she is happy there so maybe you need to request mediation with HT which focusses on finding a way forward.

Flvq · 13/12/2020 14:41

You mean SARS?

ChloeDecker · 13/12/2020 14:44

@SilverBirchWithout

I would urge posters to look at the 2 other threads started by the OP over the past couple of years. They have had a least 2 other relationships involving abusive ex’s. Something feels awry.
Yes it does, doesn’t it?!
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