Private schools are a bloody great rip-off

[fillipo]

and I should know because I used to teach in one!! I'm an English teacher, taught for 8 years in 2 different independent schools and then took the plunge and got a promotion into the state sector in September. It's like a breath of fresh air! And I've moved into the 21st century! Can't understand why I took so long to take the plunge. The teaching staff are on the whole far more professional - they don't have the complacency that some of my former colleagues had. Lessons are vibrant and interesting, the pupils are well behaved and interested. And it's free!! Well paid for through taxes but you know what i mean. Now I fully expect I'll be shouted down by lots of people telling me i'm wrong, but I don't understand why anyone pays for a private education when the alternative seems just as good.

Peacelily - I've lived in/near both of the areas you mentioned. Where I lived in N Cheshire around 25% - 30% of DS' year at state primary went on to independent schools in Manchester/Stockport. When I lived in S Oxfordshire the state secondaries weren't too great (certainly compared with S Cambridgeshire where I now live) and independent schools were also a very popular post state primary. I can't work out why the Oxfordshire schools weren't better since the local population were probably better educated and more affluent than national averages.

I guess I was thinking of someone who could afford private education and didn't use it - then their family holidays are likely to be in the region I mentioned.

it's an odd anomaly that on an area (Oxfordshire) where a lot of parents will have a dgree and possibly higher degrees compared to the population as a whole the state education system is poor.

Are the local residents backing their local schools and lobbying the relevant avenies to put more money/resources into them? It's a shame that an area is so divided and will continue to be so.

North Cheshire v affluent so it's logical that a higher than average percentage of parents will send their kids to local private schools. However obviously some state seconadries in Manc do have probs but the state secondary alternative isn't so ghastly if you can't afford or don't feel it's neccessary to send your kids to private school.

My friend in Abingdon is sending her ds to private PRIMARY school (I can understand the issues with secondaries more TBH). Are the state primaries really so bad?! That's v unusual even in more run down areas of manc/cheshire.

peacelily - I suspect it turns in part on how the state school selection process works. It is rare for all state schools in a particular area to be identical in ethos, outlook, facilities etc which leads some to be sought after and others not. I live not that far from some state schools which are truly excellent, resulting in a very high demand for places and a shrinking catchment (even though they are now building extra classes). I can't move my house the required 300 yards or so to get into the catchment, and despite living in a "very well-heeled area" (only detached houses on the road, none of which would be valued at less than £450k and most well above that) because we can only be given the nearest undersubscribed school, the dcs would attend a school that simply no-one else wanted. The only upside would be that there are relatively small class sizes.

Personally I find some of the kooky little private schools a bit weird, but at least the parents have exercised a choice.

ScaryScience is right - it would be perfectly possible for an affluent family to have to decide between private education at a good day school for two children (say £20,000 per annum) and three good annual holidays - a summer holiday, a ski-ing holiday and a week's break at Easter could easily come to £20,000.

Indeed, if one's local state schools were excellent, as they are in some parts of the country (say around Tunbridge Wells/Tonbridge/Weald of Kent), it might be a much wiser decision to spend the £20,000 on broadening one's children's horizons through regular and extensive travel than paying for private schools.

There is much more to education than school.

A longhaul holiday can easily be £5000 that is what we spent to go to Florida - plus some if I am being honest.

It was that expense that convinced dp to go private if we can blow £5K on a holiday that we did no particularly enjoy I would rather spend £6K next year on a school for dd.

Our usual holidays are much less extravagent though and will be camping from now on.

I would guess that education funding is low in Oxfordshire. It is also low in Cambridgeshire where the county gets far less per capita from the government than the neighbouring counties of Hertfordshire and Essex. Having said that, the schools in the more affluent areas of Cambridgeshire (i.e. S Cambridgeshire rather than round the Fens) do pretty well despite having large classes and poor buildings.

just seen another Xenia post. "As a woman getting a good enough job to pay for it". Is a "good enough job" determined by money alone?

I mistakenly thought that having 2 nearly 3 (on way to getting PGDip/Masters) higher education quals and working in a very specialist area made my career choice "good".

But oh no, it doesn't cos I don't earn wads of cash for the privelege. Just enough to have a modest house in a pleasant area and buy healthy food and go on modest but fun holidays (and drive a 2nd hand Ford Focus).

I could sell my soul, become a drugs rep, earn lots of cash and send dd to a private school, because everything I've achieved isn't good enough.

And what's the fear of not so bright kids Xenia? Where's the rationale? I find your posts quite offensive

xenia, I lived in North London for many years. My children went to a state primary school, and it was a good deal more racially mixed than the local prep schools. (my ds went to one of these for a couple of terms so I do know). I also find it very difficult to believe that the schools you mentioned are more racially mixed than the equivalent state schools in Camden/Kentish Town/Haringey etc.

In North London, ime there is a whole section of society that does not even know that the state sector exists (it was an eye-opener to be told by one such parent of a very high performing state school that "no-one sends their children there"). At secondary level it is different as there are fewer alternatives (in London), but there are still good secondary schools. It is very different in London to the rest of the country.

I now live out of London and have 2 at independent school (because we didn't get a state place when we moved) and the others will be going to state school.

It is wrong to suggest that all women have to do to fund private school is to get a job. Both me and my husband work as lawyers and will not be able to fund 5 children through private school. I really don't think you live in the real world Xenia.

As far as the OP is concerned, at primary level, I have seen little to convince me that private schools are worth the huge expense - there are advantages certainly, but there are in the state sector too. I think I would prefer private for my children, but have not got to make that decision yet.

I meant that I think I would prefer private for secondary for my children

I don't think Xenia's job is that offenive, perhpas overstated, you do need a good job to pay for a private education. It doesn't mean that the only jobs that are good ones pay enough to afford a private education.

Dp and I both have very normal jobs TBH.

Peacelily - look at it another way.

Xenia put her education to good use by earning a high salary so that she could pay for private school.

Other women choose to put their education to good use by staying at home with their children in their formative years and passing on their reasoning skills directly.

Other women choose to put their education to good use by making "socially useful" career choices.

All are perfectly valid ways of putting your education to good use. Your choice depends on your own circumstances and preferences.

i wouldn't want my son to go private even if we could afford it. saving for university fees seem more important to me.

but saying that, he's quite bright, so doesn't need the extra help that a private school could give him.

I only have one child, the blessings of being a divorced depressed spinster with a wrinkled up barren womb means I can afford school fees and more shoes.

However, even IF nurses salaries (and I'm already quite senior) sudddenly leapt up and matched those of some of my colleagues in other professions I would still send dd to local state primary school and secondary. As my collegues do with their kids.

We'd just have more cash for fabulous holidays and designer clothes it's not like we'd improve the house or save up more for dd if she goes to Uni or anything

Good post Anna888

I wouldn't actually send DD to private school if it meant I had to work FT. I am glad that I am in that position to make that choice. But to me, being at home part of the time - for the time when DD is home that is - is a bigger priority than the private education. Fortunately though the state alternatives around are a good alternative, just that DD's current (private) school we feel is better suited to her.

southeastastra - sadly not all bright children thrive and do well in all schools. I have seen very bright children not reach their potential because of a bad school environment. (Obviously those bad schools could be in either sector, but my actual experience of seeing this happen is state).

Anna you're totally right. If that's what you want then go for it.

Just find some posts have more than just covert hints of snobbery in them.

What's so wrong with your child mixing with some less able kids? Xenias implication was that a "good enough" job was one which meant you could afford private education. Other less well paid careers are valuable too IMO

I also only have one child - which obviously makes private education more affordable to me.

And DD's prep school isn't selective as such. There is a mix of children's abailities. The High School we hope she will go to is entry by exam however, as are all but one of the private schools locally I think.

dd prep school has a mixture of abilities, most of us though belong to the cult of catholicism

There is often snobbery in sending children to private school, but so is there in choosing a state primary. Having said that, I haven't met anyone who seems to want their children to go to private school to meet the "right" type of person, or have the "right"accent. But there is ime often a blind faith that the private school is a better alternative than a state school, and many parents don't seem to choose it on the basis of what school suits their child.

(twinsetandpearls, I realise that many parents at private schools do do normal jobs, I have 4 children so private school is not a possibility really even for us on good salaries- but that is my choice I know.)

My mum wants dd to meet the right sort of husband ( she is 6) she has always mantained that I failed at university depite having two degrees as I never merried the medical student.

Peacelily - of course, any sane person knows that there is no correlation between the worth of a person and the size of their wage packet.

Many things that human beings need (like love and affection) can never be bought for money.

My mum too is secretly gutted that despite doing nursing I never met and married the handsome surgeon Mills and Boon stylee