Private schools are a bloody great rip-off

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and I should know because I used to teach in one!! I'm an English teacher, taught for 8 years in 2 different independent schools and then took the plunge and got a promotion into the state sector in September. It's like a breath of fresh air! And I've moved into the 21st century! Can't understand why I took so long to take the plunge. The teaching staff are on the whole far more professional - they don't have the complacency that some of my former colleagues had. Lessons are vibrant and interesting, the pupils are well behaved and interested. And it's free!! Well paid for through taxes but you know what i mean. Now I fully expect I'll be shouted down by lots of people telling me i'm wrong, but I don't understand why anyone pays for a private education when the alternative seems just as good.

Most private schools have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to drugs. They are able to expel pupils, whereas state schools are not.

Our eldest ds went to a private school as he was very bright and we thought that this would be the best place for him. Speaking to him now as an adult he would in no circumstances send his own child to a private school as he felt that the attitude of his school was that the pupils were better than everyone else. There were drug problems there because a lot of the parents had more money than time and seemed to think that money would buy love. He left school 15 years ago and at that time some of the pupils were getting £50 a week pocket money.

Our other two children have been to state schools with varying degress of success. Our middle son hated school from the day he started in infants until the day he left but while at school had the opportunity to help with school productions and ended up as a sound and lighting engineer. Our dd went to a church school for 3 years where she was bullied and where the teachers couldn't control the class. We then moved and the school that she now attends is absolutely fantastic - she is encouraged to work hard and is expected to do very well in her GCSEs.

In our experience the attitude of the head teacher is vitally important in how the school feels and performs.

DD at independent school - one week half terms here.

Hmm, depends on the children, depends on the schools. we educate ours privately. we are lucky enough to be able to afford it and I wouldnt dream of choosing otherwise in our area. Local state schools imo are well, scary. And dh is a teacher who has worked in several. ds1 is in j3 (year5 i think!) he started in the local primary as I wanted him to have local friends, but i was quickly aware of how far behind he was falling. he is bright but lazy and was completley lost in a large vertically integrated class. he is now thriving.

completely

Surely it all depends upon the school? There are good and bad in both the private and the state sectors. Some are a rip off I'm sure. We are considering private for our DD's but there are possibly two schools out of several private ones that we will give serious consideration too and after that we think the local state ones are then probably a better option than paying for an education in a not so great private school.

I'm sure there are teachers here who have made the move the other way and feel relieved to have left the state system behind too.

It sounds as if people think that teaching sometimes falls below par in some private schools. Do people not mind the almost randomness of the fees? Well above inflation increases for example and the fact that a cartel is clearly being operated.

And in case anyone thinks that I'm having a go at private schools, I'm not. I don't know anything about them really. They sound as if they might be a good option for a sensitive but not particularly academic child and small class sizes sound great. But I'm also interested in what can go wrong.

NKF - we knew about the fees and the above inflation rises before we opted for independent schools. Was just part and parcel for us. And, as I said before, so far it is worth every penny. DD is so happy where she is and it really is the right school for her.

No school is perfect, NKF, with 100% outstanding lessons. We are all human!

But in a private school, the odds are in your favour. Small classes means that you really get to know the children, and also you have a much smaller marking load. For practical work, it is so easy to keep an eye on four or five small groups, rather than six large groups.

The standard of discipline makes teaching a real joy - children turn up on time for lessosn, with the correct equipment, and settle down quickly. There's no need for constant shushing - this means we accomplish a huge amount in a single lesson (leaving time for more fun activities, and longer holidays).

On a professional level, private schools have nowhere near the bureaucracy of state schools - which leaves time for better lesson planning and marking. Teachers are trained, and have continuing professional development, just like state school teachers.

It depends on what you mean by 'go wrong' NKF. I had a private education - an academically weak but very nurturing convent school until 10 and then a stronger academically but very competitive girls private school. I did well academically - I got 3 As at A level and did Oxbridge entrance and got as far as interview.

But I didn't get a place because (as I learned afterwards from an inside source) how many nice middle-class girls from small independent schools do they really want reading English at Cambridge . I was also socially inept - I was great with people in the school but totally tongue-tied (and scornful) of the yahoos that most of school mates socialised with and their braying sisters. And financially they were way out of my league. And I was even more terrified of the kids who lived in my village that I thought would think I was a snob. It took me a long long time to start to feel comfortable with new people.

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard my aspirational friends tell me how many opportunities private school is going to give their kids. It also takes them away. You need to approach with great caution IME.

I don't assume that every school is perfect. Not for a minute.I'm just interested in people's experiences and occasionally I wonder if it would be worth the enormous sacrifices we would have to make in order to send ours.

I think it all depends on the individual child, doesn't it? I've taught in state and independent and both have confident and shy students; it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with whether their parents are paying or not! And I went to a comprehensive school and was also socially inept, OrmIrian. I'm not sure how private school takes opportunities away from children, though - enlightenment on that one appreciated!

Having worked in several state schools, including a grammar school, I am totally committed for private education for my own children. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever.

The main thing I think is great about private schools, is that parents get some choice as to where their children go and they can to a greater extent than in the state sector match their child to a school.

We live in SW London, I'm going to be applying for primary school next month for DS1 to start next September. Though theoretically we have equal preference on our chosen 3 schools, I know which he will be accepted at (the nearest), therefore I have no choice. His local state school is good so I am lucky, though they are ones with better results within a 1.5 mile radius though there would be absolutely no chance of him getting in.

If the state schools near me were really bad I would move or go private (though it would finacially cripple us). I would guess that 99% of private schools even the not so good ones are better than failing state schools.

Okay - Outed and the original OP - what was so bad about the private schools your daughter attended or you taught in?

That's not been our experience with 5 children in various private schools and their father who has taught in both sectors. Perhaps it depends on the private school. If they're in the top 10 or 20 in the country which is the only ones we've been involved with then they are absolutely massively better on all kinds of grounds and well worth the money. If they are rather bad ones then like many state schools they won't seem to bad.

The fact 40% of parents would pay if they had the money (about 7% can afford to pay and do) shows it all. The fact children at private schools get much better exam results on the whole also is pretty convincing but so is the physical environment, sport and even just standards of music and culture in the schools too and in our area your racial mix is much much better than in the state schools.

I certainly have been quite pleased to pay and happy with the results.

Sorry, I realised that read rather as a challenge and it wasn't meant to. It's just one hears so often that private offers such amazing advantages (and I'm sure it does) that it's a bit of a novelty to hear about negatives.

I think a lot depends on the reasons for choosing a private school whether they are a rip off. State schools do offer a good basic education, but frankly they don't offer much else.

For example after school care is far poorer at a state school. Children are not taught a foreign langauge until stupidly late and sport facilities at your local comp just don't compare with a private school.

However I send my son to the school round the corner. He is happy there although it is not educationally perfect.

I did look at the propectuses of various private schools and one of them asked parents who were a applying to sign a form to say that their child had had no developmental problems. I find it terrible that my son would fail the school's entrance criteria because he wears hearing aids. (He is strong academically)

What do you mean by better racial mix Xenia?

The odd thing about language tuition in this country is that whenever children start and whatever school they attend, they reach 18 only able to speak English.

we are lucky on our locality in that the state schools are pretty good especially the primaries. A lot of the success or "failure" of the school is down to the catchment area and demographic factors which can stretch the most brilliant teachers to their limit.

I do lots of school observations in my job (to see whether kids have ADHD/ASD) and I'm fortumate to be able to have a nosey at all the local schools. I also do lots of liaison with schools and school nurses so get a good flavour of the true picture.

To be honest I agree with inthegutter it doesn't sit easily with me that if dd went to a private school she would grow up with some sort of superiority complex (ducks and hides now!)- and we'd never afford it.

A lot of the parents round here select their childrens schooling on factors other than just academic credentials, i.e their happiness rating and what the opportunity is like for them to mix with children from different cultures ans social backgrounds.

The local boys private school does in fact have a pretty bad drugs problem with the more expensive end of the drug market-cos they can afford it!

However if you have the cash then you have the choice and it's important to weigh up all the options.

To answer Ihate etc. I think that in previous threads Xenia has talked about the fact that there is a wide range of children of varous races compared to the mostly white state sector.

My children's school is worth every penny we pay for it. Dh has 2 jobs plus private teaching and I have 2 jobs to pay for it. My main reason was to escape the tyranny of SATS, I didn't look at any hothousing SATS taking independant schools.

The next big reasons were smaller class sizes and the wider range of opporunities on offer. I wanted a school that valued things like music and drama as much as it did the three R's and that was not going to be cancelling music/drama lessons right left and centre becasue of some stupid SATS revision class.

Dh is a music peri working in the state sector and this happens so much to him, he goes to a school to find all non academic activities have been cancelled.

Some gross generalisations going on on this thread. I.E state schools don't value music, drama and sport IME that's not the case at all especially around here.

Agree SATS aren't ideal but then lots of things about life aren't ideal as are lots of things about private education.

The issue about it beaing mainly white kids in state education is total and utter complete nonsnese and betrayes a white, upper middle class, uninformed, elitist attutude.

at one of our local state primaries there are kids of 30 different nationalities!

As for those of us who say we can't afford it I work 4 days per week, my dh works full time and in our free time we make sure we've got a lovely home, spend time as a family and do our own hobbies to keep ourselves human. the insinuation that you should work yourself into a rut because of some prejudiced notion about the horrors of state schooling is quite frankly offensive.

as for the horros of state education Iachived 10 GCSEs from my state seconadary (all high grades), achived grade 8 flute, nearly went to ballet school , 4 a levels from some state college (higher than average grades) and went to on of Brtains top 10 unis. Now working in professional role and still aspiring!!! All that from my limited and all white state education

I don't think you can generalise as you have.

Around here I do feel it's a complete waste of money (certainly at primary level) because the state primaries are so good.

Oh, and we have 2 week half term in May/June which is far preferable to in October imo.

I'm quite certain that private schools are not a waste of money if your state alternatives are crap - which is sadly the case in so many parts of the country.