Private schools are a bloody great rip-off

[fillipo]

and I should know because I used to teach in one!! I'm an English teacher, taught for 8 years in 2 different independent schools and then took the plunge and got a promotion into the state sector in September. It's like a breath of fresh air! And I've moved into the 21st century! Can't understand why I took so long to take the plunge. The teaching staff are on the whole far more professional - they don't have the complacency that some of my former colleagues had. Lessons are vibrant and interesting, the pupils are well behaved and interested. And it's free!! Well paid for through taxes but you know what i mean. Now I fully expect I'll be shouted down by lots of people telling me i'm wrong, but I don't understand why anyone pays for a private education when the alternative seems just as good.

southeastastra - consultants can work in both the NHS and in private practice.

But they can't work in private practice when they are supposed to be working in the NHS.

Ie a consultant might work Mon-Thurs in the NHS and in private practice on Fridays.

Yes but if they did meet them in real life, they wouldn't talk the way they "talk" on here.

ok. so if affluent children are on average more intelligent, why then is such a fuss made about the proprotion of independent school pupils who go on to university?

Suey2 - not everyone believes that to be the case.

But then you know that I'm sure. You're asking rhetorical questions I think.

NKF - I think that if they did meet in RL they wouldn't talk at all .

Personally I think it is great that on MN you can see a huge spectrum of views and lifestyles laid bare and although, understandably, that may upset some people it also educates.

Agreed Anna8888. I was just answering the person who wondered at the tensions generated by this sort of debate.

I am indeed, but i really want to understand the position that some people take. Genuinely. The objection to MPs sending their kids to private schools etc (even if not part of their party's ethos) has always slightly baffled me.

Don't get me wrong. I believe that the greatest gift I can give my children is the ability to be happy and fulfilled, not necessarily by academic means. I just don't see why i should be sending my children to a school where they do not stand a chance of fulfilling their academic potential.

Excuse me but how do you define intelligence?

As a working class offspring of ethnic immigrants, who attended the local comp, I went to university and I have to say, that many of the white middle class private/grammar school educated unimaginative drones students that I came across could not be classed as amazingly intelligent. Some were just like some of the working class kids.

I hate this assumption that just because you are middle classed, you are automatically more intelligent than the indigent working class pleb who has to attend the local sink school because its parents were too dumb to get a decent education which afforded them a well paying job.

There is a lot of invidious snobbery on this thread. Middle class does not equate to intelligence - greater opportunities, yes, more intelligence no.

Also, as someone who works in the NHS, consultants like long waiting lists because it provides a guaranted source of private patients.

spokette, that is why i commented on the 'more intelligent' response from Anna.

NKF if you are referring to a previous thread, I read all the responses and got myself a thicker skin. I like a good debate and really enjoy finding out the substance of other poeple's opinions, particularly when they are so different to my own.

I dont think anyone is saying all middle class children are more intelligent.

But IMO people these are the parents that have normally paid more attention in schools/put more importance on educating themselves to get a decent job and earn the money they are earning, these people are more likely to push their children further, teach their children more at home and in general place more importance on education.

No-one is doubting that children from all kinds of backgrounds can be intelligent, unfortunately it is often the case that those who are from backgrounds where education doesnt have a great standing are less likely to encourage their children and help them achieve their potential.

I wasn't referring to a previous thread.

Hey Pollyanna - I've sent dd to private school just so she can meet a rich man and marry well.

Lost of middle class parents who can afford it with children who are not so bright think private schools help those children too. Just look at the Harrow/Eton divide even at that extreme all boys boarding school end - Harrow if you're not quite so clever and Eton if you are or around our way Aldenham - Haberdashers.

Clever people from rich and poor homes tend to earn more. The very bright child from the comp can although it's not so easy get AAA at A level and go to Oxbridge and she'll earn more than the child from the same home with an IQ of 90 who will be lucky to get a job in Tesco. So yes brains even within just one lifetime can make you better off and better able to afford fees.

As for doctors most NHS consultants do mostly NHS work. My brother does one private case a month certainly very much in his own time. Some of course do a bit more. My father gave up 2/5s of his NHS salary when he started doing some private work but still mostly gave most time and priority to the NHS.

Obviously I'd have feminist objections to any woman who for herself or her daughters thinks an aim is to live off male earnings. I hope it's known what I think of that. We educate girls so they can have great careers, not so they can become an appendage to a man and wash his shirts in that obscene type of housewife time warp thing.

oh no, I'd hope dd will marry well enough to have a housekeeper to wash the shirts for her, don't want to mess up nails do we?

Yesm, but many women hire and pay their own housekeepers and would find it morally iniquitous if they expected a man to pay for that.

Spokette, yes, there is a lot of snobbery on this thread. But not necessarily in the way you mean. There seems to be a lot of snobbery on the part of parents who have chosen the state school route, feeling that they now have the moral high ground over the poor deluded fools who choose to send their pampered offspring to private school. I find that just as offensive as peacelily found Xenia's posts. How lovely to be able to feel so self-righteous about pronouncing judgement on another parent's choices, with that warm glow that comes from the fact that their child will forever wear the shiny halo of the state-educated child. On behalf of all the white, unimaginative, shy, socially maladjusted,spoonfed children I apparently teach, I would like to say 'We are not worthy!'

I think there is precious little snobbery from those who have chosen the state school route. More like an uneasy sense that they are being looked down on and a concern that their children may suffer in the future.

What I see on this thread is state school parents who say their children are having a wonderful education, and then whinging about private schools. If there was no advatage to private education, why the whinge? Honestly, I'm intrigued.

Have only skimmed the thread as it's a bit long now!

Of course there are good and bad schools in both sectors. I think the reasons people choose independent schools are the small class sizes and more attention to details like manners, rather than just the curriculum. Personally I have taught for many years in state schools and have sent both my children to private schools because I thought they would get lost in a huge school like mine.

I'm sure a lot of the sensitivity on MN comes from people's means or lack of them - look at the working mum thing for a start - many women work because they have to, not because they want to and get very upset when they are criticised for doing something over which they have very little choice. None of us know what familial circumstances people have and we should accordingly not presume to judge.

I read somewhere that over 50% of parents would send their children to private school if they could afford it. I have one child, which makes things easier for me financially and I could send him privately as I would only have one lot of fees to pay - if I had two children or more - no chance. But he attends the local state infant school and will attend the junior school (where I am a governor) and then the local state comprehensive. I am lucky I live in an area where the state schools are good and achieve good results. I do wish there were a local grammar school. However the wake-up call for me was reading that our two non-selective comprehensives achieve better results than some of the grammar schools in Kent which are selective.

These threads always go the same way. I know all the arguments by now. This one was slightly different because it had some posters who no longer rated private schools after either using one or teaching in one.

I will happily put my hand up and say that the only reason I work is to pay for my children's education.

Thankfully, I am really enjoying it.

if it came accross that I was demeaning those who send their kids to private school then I apologise. Every parent makes informed choices that fit in with their individual circumstances and for the best for their children.

We ARE fortunate here that state schools are a viable option, I know from talking to friends how dire the situation is in some parts of London, it's a tough call.

I thnki the issue needs to be examined as to WHy in some of the most affluent areas of the country parents cannot comprehend sending their children to be state educated because the situation is so unsatisfactory.

As some posters have uotlined what I do find offensive, is the no so well concealed snobbery about careers aspirations and priorities. There's some thinly concealed sneering on here TBH although the majority have balanced and well reasoned arguments.

listing all the reasons as to why certain women "pick" certain careers in such a supercilious and degrading manner is quite frankly demeaning and unneccessary

I DO get sensitive in the face of comments like that especially as I work my arse of in an under resourced NHS continually doing contnuing professional development for the sake of my family and home and mainly so dd can go to University.

And one of my biggest fears is that due to this type of attitude my dd will be disparaged and looked down on in the future because of not having the huge house, the posh ski-ing holidays and the in house servant.

Makes me quite upset TBH