Private schools are a bloody great rip-off

[fillipo]

and I should know because I used to teach in one!! I'm an English teacher, taught for 8 years in 2 different independent schools and then took the plunge and got a promotion into the state sector in September. It's like a breath of fresh air! And I've moved into the 21st century! Can't understand why I took so long to take the plunge. The teaching staff are on the whole far more professional - they don't have the complacency that some of my former colleagues had. Lessons are vibrant and interesting, the pupils are well behaved and interested. And it's free!! Well paid for through taxes but you know what i mean. Now I fully expect I'll be shouted down by lots of people telling me i'm wrong, but I don't understand why anyone pays for a private education when the alternative seems just as good.

Xenia - and how, in your finishing school theory, do women acquire the negotiation and analytical skills to stand up for themselves and make their way in life? Those skills are just as necessary for women who work outside the home as for SAHMs - in fact, arguably more so.

Oh come on, not all men are like that! I do think of my single friends at times and there is usually an obvious reason why they are still single

sorry - those skills are just as necessary for SAHMs as for WOHMs, arguably more so for SAHMs.

i meant wanting an intellectual inferior

My dp is more educated than me, but I wouldnt say more intelligent

One of my friends is 41 and still single. Nobody is surprised.

Lorayn - well, that would bear out the theory that men want women who are outwardly a little less intelligent .

My sister had a PhD. Her husband has an MBA.
He copes with her having a higher qualification than he does because his earning potential is greater. But she is cleverer IMO.

Yes. DH's job is more prestigious than mine, but I have the higher degree . (him commercial barrister, me physiotherapist)

"So if that is so bs, we should be sending girls at 16 to finishing school and getting them invited to the right parties and introducing them to the right men, concentrating on their looks etc etc just like it was."

So Xenia, eating disorders, low self-esteem etc do not exist in private schools? Because they do because girls are insecure about their looks, weight, personality etc, just like they are in all walks of life. Private schools are not the perfect little enclave that you make out all the time.

"children who won't sit still, shout, swear etc. Same with the playground." Children at private school do not swear! That news to me!

There is a significant number of children from broken homes at my dd's academically selective private school, Xenia. And a significant number of others from second marriages, etc.

xenia, the solution is not to send girls to finishing school (as you no doubt know) , which is a step backwards. Rather we need to raise men who are more secure and accepting of women with educational and career success. This means men who grow up in households in which their mother is held in esteem, where there are appropriate female role models with good jobs/education (whether the mother or other women) and who feel good about themselves - a stable household being a vital environment.

I have hope. The younger generation seem to have more flexible notions. My dh is younger than me. So not affluent when I married him. But is making his mark now.

"There is a significant number of children from broken homes at my dd's academically selective private school, Xenia. And a significant number of others from second marriages, etc."

Same at my son's prep school: many more divorced parents than there were in the state primary.

This is all very anecdotal.

There are lots of children who do not live with both natural parents in each sector. I think that in the private sector, there are probably plenty of children of divorced parents; in the state sector, probably a higher proportion of never marrieds and separated.

IME, in private schools. the added bonus for divorced families is that the parents can often use material goods to win the preference of their child. These were the most screwed up kids.

Overall, though, I find that the vast majority of kids live with both their natural and married parents in private schools, which isn't quite the case in state schools.

The last thing I want in a school I've paid fees to is a load of parents coming in "helping". It sounds a horrendous concept. Keep the parents out.

On broken homes, I meant as I said before there will be more dysfunctional homes, homes where child gets home to have to be the carer to the sick parent or the parent is shooting drugs or father in prison etc inevitably in some of the worst state schools because those parents can't afford fees and parents that can tend to have jobs and be more stable. But much more important than that is classroom disruption. I want the children to stand up when the teacher comes in the room, do what they say, no visible graffiti in school, calling teachers sir, good clean uniforms etc etc. Parent who've put huge effort into paying fees and then ensure children turn up and conform at school. I think there is less disruption in the average private primary than the average state primary in terms of the school day and ability to concentrate in class.

Yes, I agree with blues. The day a girl is as happy to marry a lower earning man as one who earns more will be a day we are getting towards equality and fairness at work and at home. And it's coming. It was never an issue in my marriage and I talk a lot to 20 somethings who are my older children's friends and they don't have sexist assumptions about roles at home. Most men want someone they can talk to and have fun with. If he's quite clever he's not going to want someone with an IQ of 90 or 100 because it's having someone to talk to for the next 40 years which is the long term aim.

I can see xenia's point about men wanting a woman to be intelligent enough to talk to, I sometimes feel the most important part of my realtionship with DP is being of a great anough intelligence to have meanignful discussions about anything that is bought up.
I often find myself thinking about something I have read somewhere and being almost excited for DP to come home so we can ahve a decent intellectual discussion.
In past relationships I have known it pointless to even imagine a conversation that wasnt about the football, or some idle local pub gossip.

Ok, I typo'd about a million times there, trust me to do it on a thread where I'm claiming to have some intelligence!

Is invisible graffiti OK?

Not sure. We have had graffiti being drawn by some (by no means all) of the state school children who walk down this way. Some residents went to see the head and were just absolutely amazed by the graffiti covering every single wall of that comprehensive school. The contrast with the local private schools was stark. If she cannot control it in her own school there isn't a cat in hell's chance she can control it off site.

I find your view that money cushions the effects of divorce etc

I wonder whether it really does for the children or more for the parents?

Cammelia - I think money does make divorce less painful for children.

Take my stepsons' life: they have two large comfortable homes with no domestic or caring responsibilities, they are never left alone without adult supervision, there is plenty of money for outings, books, educational travel etc. They get plenty of attention focused upon them, from lots of quarters. There are definitely issues for them with the level of emotional involvement in their lives on their mother's part, but that was an issue pre-divorce. My stepsons (like Xenia's children) aren't being neglected because their parents are no longer together.

Compare that to children who find themselves in cramped accommodation, parents unable to afford adequate supervision to cover the period between school end and coming home from work, or warm clothes, or the heating bill, or healthy food - divorce often results in a significant drop in standard of living.

Well in our case life was so bad for the children and I with their father, nothing, extreme poverty or anything could be as bad as that was. I was lobbied by the older children to divorce him. So not like most divorces where children are riven asunder by divided loyalties.

As to whether money helps it's always shorter than it was before divorce but being able to maintain the children's home and schools and similar standard of living probably allows them to maintain some stability. Therefore women who have the sense to continue full time work will protect their children on divorce in the way housewives won't.

Actually, I'm not at all sure, going by the rather large numbers of children I know whose parents are divorced, that divorce between comfortably off and reasonably behaved parents causes "divided loyalties". I don't think I can think of any examples. Most children of divorced parents here in France spend a lot of time with both parents (standard contact arrangement is very "generous" to the non-resident parent).

Maybe it's something to do with the French way of parenting where children from a very early age are looked after by nounous and grandparents for a significant part of the time and are quite used to being away from their parents for a good part of the year. They aren't used to constantly living in one home. In any case, they seem to take it in their stride, provided their material circumstances are OK and they see both parents very regularly.

A lot of UK divorces are riven with acrimony, many women mostly who don't work not letting the children see their fathers at all, fathers being lucky to see them every fortnight if the mother sticks to a standard court order and each parent trying to poison the children against the other one.

I can't think of any instances of that among my friends and acquaintances. One friend of mine was very glad when her tiresome ex husband left the country as he couldn't default on contact time anymore - here you call the police when the other parent doesn't show or you are refused contact and is dealt with judicially. But you basically can't kidnap your children or refuse to have them. And maintenance/alimony settlements are separate to contact arrangements (ie not dependent on nights spent), unlike the UK.

Maybe it's UK divorce law that's at fault, not divorce itself?