Corbyn, vat, private schools

[NoisingUpNissan]

So... Just worried about corbyn and private schools.

I'm naturally labour but couldn't vote for him with this.

We have two kids in prep, couldn't really afford any extra cash. As it stands we have a leaking bathroom (no bath for a year) and old unreliable shitty car, certainly not entitled or priveledged people. Not that it should matter.

Very annoyed as they are only there because ASD and they had 33 kids in their classes!

So, just wondering... Does anybody think this is a real risk?

I don't care if I come across as being all out for myself, I'm all out for my kids. My son is just too autistic to deal with a big class size and needs the extra work as he's v bright.

London has the most private schools
because it has the greatest shortage of and most complicated state school place admission systems
It also has lots of super rich people who like segregated schooling.

If ALL state school places were properly funded
and the number of places available was allowed to be managed to meet need
the number of kids in fee paying schools in London would drop to nearer the norm elsewhere

the key is proper funding
and transparent admissions / supply
in the state sector
NOT faffing about with VAT on parts of the private sector

I moved DS to private school aged 7. His SEN meant that he was lost in a small primary. He went to a school where there were about 150 children aged 4-16. He still didn't know the names of the 10 people in his class but better 10 than 30+.

That’s not my impression listening. The majority of London private parents didn’t all apply as a back up incase they didn’t get a state school within reasonable commute. They did so for the same reason I and many others did, they can afford to pay for the school they believe is best for their dc. They certainly don’t have any more justification for doing so than any other private school parent elsewhere in the uk.

So my point stands, if people are still actively choosing private in an area the state schools already receive significantly higher funding than anywhere else, simply improving state schools isn’t going to noticeably reduce the parents choosing private.

I have no idea about the thought processes of "the majority of London private parents"
but the reality of a shortage of places and a massively complicated admissions system
is behind the huge numbers of families who move out of London each year
to areas where state school funding is less ......

So maybe the solution is to sort the state system and leave the private system to its own devices,
without charitable tax status bungs

So with education being devolved in Scotland, would it mean if Corbyn et al did abolish Private Schools, that in Scotland they could still continue as he would need permission from the Scottish Government for them to be abolished? Not saying Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP wouldn't jump at the chance to abolish Private Schools but the SNP are just awkward enough to refuse. Just wondering!

mothers
re Scotland : Again, an irrelevance
Private schools will not be abolished
VAT will not be added to private school fees

EVERY parent should fight for proper funding of state schools
EVERY parent should fight for clear and fair state school admission
if they choose not to use the state system that is their choice
but
EVERY parent should want the safety net not to have holes in it

Bring taxes back to what they were under Thatcher
is that a big ask ?

We moved our sons to prep school for exactly the same reasons @NoisingUpNissan . Our eldest has autism and had a 1:1 TA at primary school. He couldn't cope with the noise and the big class sizes made out difficult for him to be independent. He is also very bright and needed greater intellectual challenge. He's now done a year at prep school without a 1:1 TA and absolutely loves it. It has been so good for him. He's so independent, confident and most of all HAPPY now. We too have been worried about labour's proposals. I do not want to imagine the horror of sending my son back to primary school and then onto a secondary school.

The senior school in our nearby town employs about 600 people and is the towns second largest employer. I cannot imagine how any government can think it would be right to make all these people redundant.

Don't mix up two things:

a) VAT on fees - not permitted whilst we are in EU (no taxation on education in schools and universities). Calling for imposition means you are de facto supporting/accepting Brexit, for that is what makes this policy possible. There will need to be a successor regime to VAT at some point post-Brexit, but I hope it will be thought through and overhauled as a system, not targeted for ad hoc changes

b) charitable exemptions to VAT on the business costs of running a school - not all schools are charities, so many would be unaffected. The value of this exemption is avarage £200 per pupil per term (well within existing variation of fee levels between schools). This couid be absorbed. Would require quite a change in the laws governing charities, and the legal parameters under which they must be wound up if deemed not a charity. It would of course be possible to pass new laws about this, but I have yet to see any actual proposals that do not have unacceptable (unintended) consequences on education provided by charities.

My grandparents were miners and labourers in the north east. My parents worked 16 hour days 7 days a week - in the red 70's too! They taught me the value of hard work, I have experienced snobbery just for having an accent. I choose to give my kids the best life and education I can. I pay for them
To go to public schools out of my hard earned salary- no one will take this away from me. I believe in a meritocracy and paying it forward if I can. My parents would have been fully supportive. So bring on the class war war. Life is not fair in many ways but depriving people of the human right to make their lives better for themselves and let the state to take control is against everything I stand for

How can you believe in a meritocracy while simultaneously buying your children privilege?

Think it's quite clear that many prep parents arent buying priveledge necessarily, some people like me are just levelling a playing field. So that, you know, my son can survive school life?

But aside from that, I can spend my money on whatever I like. As can you. Free country etc etc.

I'll do what I can to give my kids the best start in life because I've worked hard long hours and I CHOOSE to spend MY money on them, I choose education. It won't guarantee them a job or success in the future that's up to their own efforts but at least I'll know I've done what I can to give them the best education I can afford with excellent plentiful teachers, resources and choice.

I came to UK as an immigrant from Romania . I came with nothing and now work really hard to send my only son to private school. We have a small house, cheap car and holidays. Not that I need to justify, how I spend my money. This is what I choose.
It is grim and reminds me of communist times of my childhood. That's how it all started. I thought I left it all behind.

I haven’t got involved in this argument so far as I never believed Labour could really swing this far. I’m also not the sort of person to draw attention to myself in forums! However I disagree very strongly with the ideology that is driving this. It doesn’t seem to be about fairness as none of it really addresses improving things for everyone up to the same levels, so it’s not really about equality, it’s just a first step to socialist control.

We are supposed to live in a free country.
No state should require every child to only attend its own schools, educated by its own prescribed methods/curriculum, that way lies indoctrination.
No state should require so much control as to how a parent educates their child. We are free to have our own beliefs on how our families work.
No state should be able to dictate how a parent’s privately earned and taxed money is spent, whether they choose to spend that on educating their child or anything else

Every child should be able to access excellent education and it’s the past few years of bad policy/austerity that have destroyed the improvements that had been made.
This will do nothing to improve it but will be the first step to a level of state control that should scare us. If this is seen as okay, what do they remove freedoms for next? Free press? Freedom of movement?
Looks like I’m switching back to the Liberals again.

They’ve lost the Brexit supporters, with this they’re losing liberals and the middle who might have trusted them in an election, so I’m not sure who will be left voting for them anyway.

I am sorry, but I have to say I am only thinking of myself and my children here. I am being so selfish,.....but if this happens, I don't know, I just, I just...,....would be so fucking ...... happy. Cant come a day too soon.

The country is falling apart and all that comes out of the labour conf is to abolish public schools. Call themselves an opposition party - a bunch of hypocrites who couldn't run race at a primary school. Utter disgrace

What is disgraceful about it. Bloody marvellous, start to chip away at the vile privilege that strangles this country.

Oh and sillyrubberduck, do you think I work any less hard than you......why not have confidence in local schools and grace them with your children, what di you th8nk you are actualky buying?

JC4, I'm sure you work as hard as me but in a free society you should be able to spend your money as you wish. I'm buying a good education for my child as local schools are rubbish. Should I buy a more expensive house in a good catchment area or pretend I suddenly became religious ?

I am sorry, but I have to say I am only thinking of myself and my children here. I am being so selfish,.....but if this happens, I don't know, I just, I just...,....would be so fucking ...... happy. Cant come a day too soon.

Sorry, no communism for you!

Spend your money as you wish in a free society? Dont make me laugh. Are you allowed to buy guns here. Are you allowed to buy heroin? No. Why should you be allowed to buy privilege and to damage the prospects of the 94 percent of children who do not have the wealth to attend public school? Why? And why are we unique pretty much in having such an abominable system in this countey, compared to the rest of Europe? Vile place. Abolish the private school system.

Abolish the private school system.

Nah, let’s just abolish the Labour Party instead.

JC4 are you really comparing buying education with buying guns and drugs ? and if you stop buying privilege, also stop people buying big houses, luxury cars, Holidays to Florida , private health.!! Where do you stop ? let's truly make everyone equally. Oh, hold on.... seen this before !

And JC4 , how do I damage the prospect of other children ?

JC I’d have just bought catchment for a top state school or grammar. Or found religion. Not to mention my dc would still be privileged, so I could still buy any extra tuition or extra curricular.

Let’s be realistic, they wouldn’t suddenly be forced to learn the curriculum from someone without a degree in the subject, or be left struggling because the harassed and overworked teacher has got more serious concerns than their minor questions. Nor would they suddenly be personally experiencing life at the bottom end of the economic scale.