Corbyn, vat, private schools

[NoisingUpNissan]

So... Just worried about corbyn and private schools.

I'm naturally labour but couldn't vote for him with this.

We have two kids in prep, couldn't really afford any extra cash. As it stands we have a leaking bathroom (no bath for a year) and old unreliable shitty car, certainly not entitled or priveledged people. Not that it should matter.

Very annoyed as they are only there because ASD and they had 33 kids in their classes!

So, just wondering... Does anybody think this is a real risk?

I don't care if I come across as being all out for myself, I'm all out for my kids. My son is just too autistic to deal with a big class size and needs the extra work as he's v bright.

I too find it depressing. We live in a very traditional rural constituency needless to say our MP is a Tory (and an Old Etonian) with a 27000+ majority and a staunch Brexiteer but in a constituency that voted overwhelming (with over an 80% turnout) to remain not that this dichotomy seems to worry him. I have never voted Tory, my ancestors would be spinning in their graves at the mere prospect of it, but am depressed by labour and uninspired by the Lib Dem’s and in the pursuit of power they cheerfully got into bed with Cameron. I voted green the last five times partly because
it doesn’t really matter who I vote for here and I do agree with many of their policies but it all seems so pointless barely worth registering to vote.
Interestingly DS2 lives in a constituency with only about 900 votes between the top two candidates that does become more interesting perhaps I should move,

Trying to look at the whole picture, I am shocked to see that state schools pay business rates. How about abolishing that first? That seems like a easy win for education, it's one of those taxes where it seems the council pay for something, education, and then take it away again, rates, what a waste of time and effort. By the by, academies seem to get relief on their rates, but I can't see if state schools do as well.

As for charging VAT on private schools, I have seen some articles suggesting that it would be neutral, as they would then claim back VAT on goods and services, but I can't find actual evidence of this.

Never as black and white as it first seems.

As for charging VAT on private schools, I have seen some articles suggesting that it would be neutral, as they would then claim back VAT on goods and services, but I can't find actual evidence of this

It is likely that they would then be able to reclaim VAT on purchases but that won't make it neutral. Imagine an independent school charging £10,000 a year. Of that, around £6,500 will go on staff costs. That leaves £3,500 for other purchases, some (but not all) of which will carry VAT. If we imagine that all purchases carry VAT, they will be able to reclaim a little under £600. So the fees come down to £9,400 but now they have to charge VAT of £1,880. So parents now have to stump up an additional £1,280 per year and, if they do, the government is better off by that much. In reality, as a result of purchases that don't carry VAT, the increase in fees is likely to be significantly more than that.

The problem with this policy is that, as often happens, the politicians have assumed that people's behaviour won't change, so parents who already have children at independent schools will stump up the extra and new pupils will continue to arrive at the same rate. It is likely that the reality will be somewhat different and that this policy (if implemented), far from raising additional money for the government, will actually leave the government with less money.

"...our MP is a Tory (and an Old Etonian) with a 27000+ majority and a staunch Brexiteer but in a constituency that voted overwhelming (with over an 80% turnout) to remain not that this dichotomy seems to worry him."

This, of course, is an imaginary MP in an imaginary constituency. There's no such man nor such constituency never mind the huge majority.

@peteneras Do you have anything valuable to add to this debate other than accuse someone of lying?

I've added my contribution long ago on this thread before you stumbled onto this thread @iamadalek2. So are you accusing me of lying instead or are you the type who's perfectly comfortable with being mislead? A Labour Party voter, no doubt!

Well, there are 20 Old Etonians in parliament, I think. Shouldn’t take long to check their majorities if you were so inclined....

And I did type 'misled'. In any case, it's not rocket science (maybe it is to you) in the modern day to find out which Tory MP has the largest majority. And don't tell me anything about 'Old Etonians'.

@peteneras so no then.

@ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave I wasn't aware schools were taxed in this way. I agree it would make sense to start with abolishing this first.

*"...our MP is a Tory (and an Old Etonian) with a 27000+ majority and a staunch Brexiteer but in a constituency that voted overwhelming (with over an 80% turnout) to remain not that this dichotomy seems to worry him."

This, of course, is an imaginary MP in an imaginary constituency. There's no such man nor such constituency never mind the huge majority.&
Why would I lie? What would be the point? Ok here are the actual results we have a Tory MP educated at Eton and a strong supporter of Brexit, his majority at the last election on a 74% turnout was 25,698 we are considered to be a "safe tory seat" labour came 2nd with just over 10,000 then the Liiberal Democrats with around 9000. At the European referendum with an 80% turnout the same consituency voted to remain. My DH found this website how to vote tactically if you support Europe (or something similar) in our constituency there was no point.

peteneras if you still don't believe me or if anyone else thinks I'm making this up Im happy to PM you the link to our MP and the last election results. But I am not prepared to publicly broadcast where I live as I'd link to maintain a modicum of anonymity.

And despite being pro Brexit his majority increased in 2017.

@peteneras is simply randomly flaming or whatever the term is so just ignore.

iamadalek2 you're right its just such a weird accusation .

Amazing what you can find if you google it. We're not the only safe tory seat which had/has an old Etonian as their MP. David Cameron, remember him? In 2010 majority 22740 and in 2015 majority 25,155.

The safest seat is a labour seat Liverpool Walton approx 32000 in 2017.

I work for a Business and the purpose of the Business if to make excess money (profits) to distribute to our Shareholders so that they can buy champagne and guzzle oysters (or buy socks, or to support their pension fund.... dealers choice, they can spend it however they like).

My friend works for a private school, which is a Charity. The object of the school at the moment is frankly to cover costs so that they can continue providing education to their pupils. If, however, they are able to make excess money (profits) then that money does NOT get given to people who own the school, nor to current parents using the school. It is used to educate more children in the future by keeping the school open (for example in a year when they have a low role), or more children now by offering bursaries to people who could not otherwise afford to attend, or to improve the facilities of the school.

It is clear to me that the school is not a Business, as it is not "in business" to make a profit for the benefit of shareholders.

If it is not to be a charity, how would do you believe it should be structured?

"“It also offers its resources out to the local comprehensive and provides tutoring to that school too”
Can I ask how this works? I’d love to see an example of this working well in practice."

A practical example @BertrandRussell - & this is fact

DS's school took pupils and teachers to run a debating class , weekly , because said school did not do it

Well a small example - and if not enough - please know they did other things - but I don't know about those - just this one. I know this won't change the world - but they did it.

“DS's school took pupils and teachers to run a debating class , weekly , because said school did not do it ”
Yes- that is the sort of thing that’s quite simple and could make a difference. You need to be very careful about taking pupils to help run things unless it is for much younger children- sometimes it can look a bit as if they are on a sociology field trip.......

What, in addition I would say, is that if people have an argument about different types of school , don't criticise the children for being " Chinless Wonders" or "Chavs " most often it is the parents who have chosen the school. The pupils are very often very good and so better to criticise parents than the children / pupils - Enough

@BertrandRussell , I get your point , & I hesitated to post but I do get your point about sociology field trip - but they did take teachers and DS said it was hard work - he was told this is not a day out - you have to work. Look , I do not know, but Ds saw a couple of pupils who were good ( potential ) at debating and tried to help. In truth - it was probably the same as he would have had at his school , some pupils and a teacher or two. He thought they gave the other school similar.

“@BertrandRussell , I get your point , & I hesitated to post but I do get your point about sociology field trip”
Sorry-@BasiliskStare I wasn’t meaning that as a criticism-i’m sure your ds abd gis friends were the soul of tact and diplomacy! And Debating is a very good idea. I was just musing about how it’s all more difficult than it might appear on the surface.

@BertrandRussell , Thank you . It's difficult. Ds's
school did debating ( inter alia ) Afterwards for other school They all had to volunteer about how it could work with other school who did not have a debating society / club . DS loved it - he said there was a couple of pupils who just were great. So - yes he has the first advantage - but loved speaking, and speaking to people who like debating. - My DS , much as I love him , is not a great sportsman etc but he likes debating and good and in truth he has done a good deal with others. He tried his best to give people who were good at ( or indeed had potential ) a decent go at debating. I know debating is not the absolutely best thing , but as an extra curricular enjoyable thing & can be useful.

"there were a couple " not was a couple " have nerve problem in arm and so for mistyping that's my story and I am sticking to it - ha ha