Corbyn, vat, private schools

[NoisingUpNissan]

So... Just worried about corbyn and private schools.

I'm naturally labour but couldn't vote for him with this.

We have two kids in prep, couldn't really afford any extra cash. As it stands we have a leaking bathroom (no bath for a year) and old unreliable shitty car, certainly not entitled or priveledged people. Not that it should matter.

Very annoyed as they are only there because ASD and they had 33 kids in their classes!

So, just wondering... Does anybody think this is a real risk?

I don't care if I come across as being all out for myself, I'm all out for my kids. My son is just too autistic to deal with a big class size and needs the extra work as he's v bright.

And I do find the way people accept private schools getting charitable status deeply distasteful.

Frankly, if people are sailing so close to the wind that the imposition of VAT would price them out of private school, then it would surely be a massive relief to leave.

No. It’s a problem for the future, since the fees rise for senior, Ive another child to put through, and the fees in 10 years time (assuming 5% max increase a year) will be too much if we add VAT on top.

I can afford today’s fees. But compounding increases mean I can’t afford it in 5 years. Unless I go work in London again (but I prefer having the ability to

For me, vat on top would mean using the local school to year six and saving everything possible to pay for senior.

abolition of private schools - again it won't happen because the SEN schools protect everybody else !!

Listening surely they could abolish private schools except for SEN one’s?

I think should Labour win an election they will find a way to abolish private schools. However many of the parents who use them will find another way to educate their children privately.

Sorry, rogue apostrophe - and on an education thread. Shocking.

They abolish private schools. Where do those kids go? Who teaches them?

Because the state sector hasn’t got room.

I think should Labour win an election they will find a way to abolish private schools.
Highly, highly unlikely (not saying which)

The stupid communists have now moved on to abolition - although given that they were too thick to work out how to abolish their own deputy leader today, it doesn’t say much about their ability to put their loony plans into action.

Love this “communist” thing. People don’t seem to know what the word means any more.

What exactly would you call John McDonnell’s plans to nationalize private schools then? Because it sure as fuck isn’t far off:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-private-school-abolish-public-education-eton-john-mcdonnell-corbyn-manifesto-a9110366.html

It would involve removing charitable status from private schools, imposing limits on their pupils' entry to universities and for their "endowments and assets to be redistributed" across the wider education sector.

You don’t have to be a communist to want to abolish private schools!

Oh, ok, let’s just use “far left lunatic” instead then. Much better!

How about “person who thinks we should be working towards a fairer society”?
Glad to see that you’ve moved away from communist. It’s a word with a meaning.

You can also fundamentally disagree with the existence of private schools but acknowledge that since they exist, getting rid of them would be a catastrophically stupid mistake.

I don’t know whether it would be a catastrophically stupid mistake, I do know it would be complicated, and that it’s not going to happen. Hence VAT.

How about “person who thinks we should be working towards a shitty authoritarian socialist society”? Since you’re so keen on accuracy.

Because the charitable status thing is indefensible.

Bertrand catastrophically stupid because the state system is already in crisis, projected pupil numbers for secondary is already going to be (in fact already is) a disaster given the critical shortage of teachers. And they want to shove more kids into the mix by pricing them out of private?

‘Let’s add VAT to school fees and use the money to pay for free school meals’? No chance, you’ll be using the money to pay for state school places for kids whose education was previously paid for by the parents. Even more new schools would have to be built to cope. And where do the teachers come from? Teachers are fleeing the state sector so don’t expect private teachers to be that keen.

If state school funding had not been cut for the last ten years
the private school debate would have become increasingly irrelevant.

It tax rates return to what they were under Maggie Thatcher,
the state school funding crisis could be solved rapidly

I don’t think that imposing VAT is going to mean a huge exodus from private to state.

Are there any accurate stats on how much they could claim back if they were vat registered businesses? Because I’m thinking it wouldn’t take particularly creative accounting to ensure the net gain in tax would be relatively minimal, especially the better type that do actively spend on the charitable aims. And/ or those that spend large sums on the buildings, grounds, facilities etc.

Of course some dc would be forced to leave the sector, but imo it would be the smaller, cheaper schools that would struggle for pupils. The big schools would still remain and private education would just be more exclusive in that everyone attending would be from far wealthier homes and at more exclusive/ well known schools. So regardless of which side of the fence you’re on, I’m not sure it would make any difference to society.

Plus I’m not seeing how any government would get round the complexity of charitable assets. On the charity status it would be more constructive to enforce actual charitable spending and behaviour rather than the theoretical aims too many get away with.

I don’t disagree with the fact education does need to have equality, but as they don’t have any interest in also sorting the travesty of the state system alongside private school it’s nothing more than a distraction.

It is inherently unfair that my dc get a better education than Joe Bloggs at bog standard state school. But pricing their less wealthy peers out of private and into Joe Bloggs class isn’t going to make any difference to the unfairness of Hortencia attending her top London state comprehensive, or her exclusive state grammar, whilst Emma gets some underfunded failing coastal comprehensive or a struggling secondary modern. And won’t make any difference to the dc like mine where the cost could be absorbed.

Or more importantly the despicable system for Sen, where the parents ability to pay or fight, or indeed both, can make the difference between accessing suitable education or their child being completely fucked over and receiving no suitable education.

VAT on schooling is a total red herring
because education across the board is currently exempt from VAT.

Adding it to private school fees would hit those with the highest staff rations the hardest
which is special schools

Charitable status is a much easier target
because lots of private schools are already set up as businesses
and can be done inside or outside the EU

but the true issue is to reverse ten years of education funding cuts

I don’t think that imposing VAT is going to mean a huge exodus from private to state.

Even with a Brexit recession in the mix? Are you willing to bet your own child’s state education on it?

Because state education is fucked. Totally fucked. Even if Labour want to fix it it is going to take years and years to fix.

It cannot withstand a disruptor to the system, it’s not really managing as is.

Private schools do not thrive in countries where state education is first class.

The way to challenge private schools is to ensure that the state offering is as good or better - or at least so good that parents think long and hard about shelling out £100,000 + of taxed income on a private school.

Corbyn and co - as usual- are missing the point because they believe that stirring up hatred and envy will win them votes. And I think they are wrong on that too.

Flying I’m not sure that would work in the Uk. Look at London, it has the highest funded and therefore generally better state schools in a greater ratio but the independent sector is thriving there. Many already receive the same funding as smaller, more basic private’s in other parts of the country, but parents are still opting for independent.

The theory might work where it’s a cheaper private that’s been chosen over the very underfunded and struggling county state schools. Or with milder sen that would be catered for at a mainstream state with adequate funding. But those scenarios aren’t the main problem.

Bert
Love this “communist” thing. People don’t seem to know what the word means any more.

People are frequently calling the Tories fascists (on mumsnet, at least).
Do you think that’s also ridiculous?
I don’t think Corbyn and co give a stuff that there aren’t enough school so long as they can abolish private schools.