Corbyn, vat, private schools

[NoisingUpNissan]

So... Just worried about corbyn and private schools.

I'm naturally labour but couldn't vote for him with this.

We have two kids in prep, couldn't really afford any extra cash. As it stands we have a leaking bathroom (no bath for a year) and old unreliable shitty car, certainly not entitled or priveledged people. Not that it should matter.

Very annoyed as they are only there because ASD and they had 33 kids in their classes!

So, just wondering... Does anybody think this is a real risk?

I don't care if I come across as being all out for myself, I'm all out for my kids. My son is just too autistic to deal with a big class size and needs the extra work as he's v bright.

Is it more difficult that it appears on the surface?
Who’s finding it difficult the pupils from the independent sector or the state sector? When both go out into the real world it’s likely they’ll mix with all types of people from all backgrounds especially when they go to university. I would hope both are tolerant of difference and realise that things like what school you went to don’t make you a better or worse person.

Happygardening , when my DS went to university - friends were from all sorts of schools. I realise university is "a thing" rather than not going , but all got on well .

“Who’s finding it difficult the pupils from the independent sector or the state sector?“
I think there is potential for both to find it difficult. There will be some unpleasant extreme views on both sides-as you know I live in a town divided by the selective system and there are regular incidents-scuffles and pushing off the pavement sort of stuff between posh and chav. A couple of much nastier incidents too, sadly. But for most it’s just the difficultly when two very different worlds come together. It needs tact and understanding-neither qualities found in abundance in teenagers! For example, my ds is currently working in both a private and a state school and he has surprised himself by how angry the financial disparity makes him. Not least that the private school can pay him for what he volunteers to do at the state school! And he is a privileged, middle class person- how much worse might someone from a disadvantaged background feel the first time they stepped into something that looks a bit like Hogwarts! I don’t know- i’m only rambling. But many of these children will have lives worlds apart from each other. The class barrier is still surprisingly rigid.

“Happygardening , when my DS went to university - friends were from all sorts of schools”

I agree. But by that point, they’ve all done A Levels- they know that they’ve all achieved at more or less the same level. But my dd was amused during her first weeks at a prestigious university that “where did you go to school?” was a question. And people were surprised that they hadn’t heard of hers! And there were halls where people from particular schools congregated.......

“Where did you go to school?”
I suspect this very much depends on the university. And it’s a conversation opener it’s pretty inevitable that in the first weeks you’ll get asked these types of questions but I suspect within a month of starting it’s stops. Are there really halls where particular schools congregate? DS2 (also at a prestigious university) just listed three or four halls the he liked the look of (location and cost being his number 1 priority) but allocation was done by the university.

“ Are there really halls where particular schools congregate”

Yep!
And yes, I know that “What school did you go to?” Is a conversation opener. But seriously- it really is a question expecting the answer “[private school]”

@BertrandRussell . DS's old school friends did not congregate other than occasionally. ( NB he is not Eton) . He , I think , & I hope , had a wide range of friends - but @Bertrand Russell , good point in that once at university different . I personally think school does not count once there unless good friends and then - all bets are off. . Ds had a few school friends across the university but closer to home ( i.e. college ) - no one worried. Different schools , 6th form colleges . whatever they had done - they all got on. He has a couple / handful of friends from his school - otherwise - they were from many different schools.

Absolutely. I was just pointing out that it’s not all plain egalitarian sailing!

“I personally think school does not count once there unless good friends and then - all bets are off”

The thing is that my child’s experience is different. Not a big deal- but I think that sometimes people don’t notice things that seem perfectly normal to them. My dd is someone that the private -well, actually public- school group would automatically assume was in their club. So they did a bit of a double take when in this particular way she didn’t. No judgement or anything- just an observation.

Why aren't Labour talking about putting VAT on aviation fuel? Where are the priorities when we're facing a global climate emergency? In 15 years when we are suffering the irreversible effects of climate change this debate will seem utterly ludicrous.

Why aren't Labour talking about putting VAT on aviation fuel? Where are the priorities when we're facing a global climate emergency? In 15 years when we are suffering the irreversible effects of climate change this debate will seem utterly ludicrous.

Why aren't Labour talking about putting VAT on aviation fuel?
Because of international treaties and safety rules

Why is putting VAT on aviation fuel affected by safety rules?

@bob1234bob I agree with you. Many of these schools have charitable foundations that go back centuries. Their assets cannot just be redistributed or used for purposes other than the continuation of the charity, so even if they were closed the only thing that could happen is that a new identical charity would have to be created with the same founding principles.

That brings me to the principle of educating the poor. It has become popular to say that these schools have lost their way and no longer educate the poor, but our modern understanding of the word poor is very different to what it was. Wonderful though it is to think that these schools were founded with modern values, they weren't. They were not founded to educate the destitute. They weren't even there to educate the sons of skilled workmen like blacksmiths. The poor were generally the sons of non-landowning younger sons of landed gentry, the sons of the local Rector and men in acceptable professions like the law. Furthermore, until the mid 19th century, you had to be Anglican to go to most of them, and to Oxford and Cambridge too. In many ways, these schools are far more egalitarian now than they ever were, despite the exorbitant fees, because they really do have a wide spread of wealth, class, religion, nationality, first language and so on. British education remains the most desirable in the world - it is up there with German cars, French champagne and Swiss watches. We need to find a way of nurturing the goose that lays this golden egg so it can benefit our country. I fear that at present Labour is hell bent on killing it.

Dapple
If fuel is taxed in some countries and not in others, pilots will be under pressure to fill up in some places and not others.
So the agreements are that every country treats aviation fuel the same

And as half of all flights are taken by a small minority of people (business people and the super rich) the growth of aviation could be reversed quite easily

Thank you for answering my question, listening.

Why is putting VAT on aviation fuel affected by safety rules

Airlines pay VAT on aviation fuel for domestic flights but not for international flights. Imposing tax on international flights would result in "tankering" - aircraft taking as much fuel as possible from airports outside the UK so that they don't have to take much when in the UK, thereby minimising the amount of VAT they have to pay. This would be counterproductive for the environment - aircraft carrying a full tank of fuel will burn more fuel and they may well travel further to fill up in low tax jurisdictions. Pilots would also be under pressure to take off from low tax jurisdictions at or very close to the maximum take off weight and depart from the UK with as little safety margin as possible. This wouldn't take away safety margins completely but it could erode them.

Right I can't get too worked up about aviation fuel but to @BertrandRussell , my points about "all bets are off" with DS - was he would be friends with them ( had he liked them - and some he did not so much - ditched ) So he would have been friends with school friends - but it wasn't because they came from " A school" it was because he knew them and liked them "from school" . Not sure I have explained that very well , but hope the thought gets through.

I know it is not the point but best degree in Ds's college ( for his subject) was a young woman from a comprehensive. She was one of his good friends & remains so - DS independent

@BertrandRussell - you are right to point out if different school pupils go to university they sort of start again and it is different ( not completely - but shared interests etc etc. - so easier to mix - I get that ) Ds I honestly believe didn't give a hoot about people's school