A bright child is a bullied child in state schools!!!!!!!

[TenaLady]

Your thoughts please. I just find it incredible that if a child is bright either in primary or secondary school they seem to be penalised by their peers.

Is it jealousy, what is it that makes these children that want to get on and enjoy their education such a target?

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[3catstoo]

Not the case with DS.

I think it depends on the social skills of the bright child though.

DS is bright in all subjects/activities (yr 2) but is such a fun loving relaxed boy that he is great to be around and has no problems with friends at school. Of course this could change as he gets older.

[tigermoth]

I too think the OP is a generalisation. In my limitied experience, not all bright children are eager, nerdy swots, a target for bullies. I do think the culture of 'cool' is very powerful, at my son's school at least.

When my son started his grammar school, within weeks he made judgements on what and who were cool. He joined the boys who played football (even though he is not actually that good at it and has knee problems) and did not outwardly bother about getting top marks. He refused to go to any other extracurricular activity (apart from cricket) because of of being labelled a geek or a nerd. So although he loves playing chess at home, he wouldnt join the school chess club, he goes to a youth drama group on Saturdays but won't join the school drama productions. He has a good voice and is quite musical. He was persuaded to sing a solo for his house in a school music competition and was highly praised for it by both his music teachers and his fellow pupils, but he won't join any of the choirs or take up a musical instrument - as again, that's uncool.

Now he has been at the school a couple of years and made some friends, he keeps hinting about joining the rohck band club and getting involved in the next school drama production, but I can see he is only daring to do this now he has 'extablished' himself.

[bellabelly]

I really haven't found this formula (bright = bullied) to be true, either as a bright child myself or, in more recent years, as a secondary school teacher working in state schools.

I'd go so far as to say that children usually seem to value each other's cleverness / intelligence / skill of all types - maybe really good storytelling abilities, maybe being really fast at mental arithmetic, maybe an instinctive flair on the sports field, etc... Kids have a VERY accurate idea of academic pecking order and in my experience are almost always keen to compare results. It doesn't seem to do them half the emotional damage their parents so often fear.

[Marina]

I hope he gets stuck in there TM - your post reminds me I refused to join the excellent choirs at secondary school for the same reason. How I regret that now. Your post makes for interesting reading

[bozzaNatasha]

I was bullied at secondary school and called "swat" and the children would call me "slaphead" and slap my forehead as they walked past me in the corridor, or slap their own and pull a face at me at the same time. I was reasonably good academically at a state comp. I got the school prize for overall academic attainment, plus others for individual subjects which shows that although I don't think I am really that clever I certainly looked it in that environment. But I also wasn't trendy and had second hand, slightly shabby uniform, the wrong kind of school bag etc.

I am totally over this now, especially when I look at my lifestyle, I have a degree, I have travelled, I have a reasonably well paid part time job, I have a nice house, a loving and comitted husband, two gorgeous, bright and funny children, still got a reasonable figure. Some of those who bullied me look ten years older than me now. There was one girl who bullied me but we sort of made the peace and she started to respect me, but she died of cancer several years ago.

The only way it still affects me is that I worry for my children, particularly DS who is academically able but not very sporty. One of the things he does is love football. But he tends to take that to a bit of a nerdy level. Another thing is that he is reasonably socially confident. We went to a garden party on Saturday of one of DD's nursery friends. So DD had quite a few nursery friends there (although not her closest friends) but DS was the one who was off and playing first, running around with an older boy.

[Meglet]

I was bright and verbally bullied. The girls doing it were the trendy, good girls, whereas I was a total wallflower. in the end I left at 14, the teachers tried to get me to stay but and pointed out I was very smart but i left anyway. Am very aprehensive about what its like these days.

[yellowpoo]

Believe some children who are academically able, might not have developed social skills as far as academic skills and so stick out socially. i don't believe this is true generally. I think its down to personal confidence, expression and social interaction skills!

[Xanthipi]

I think that my son (who goes to independent school) is and will always be a target not because of his cleverness , but because he's a social disaster area maybe due to his cleverness. He's clever in certain areasgood at chess, a weirdo maths wiz, very helpful with my writing, and just thinks like an adult in a lot of waysbut he's not socially or physically clever. He has no idea how to relate to other children, plus he has a bit of a speech impediment. And all that makes him different. I think it's "difference" that's the key to why someone is bullied.

Yes, there's probably a component of its not being "cool" to be academic, but can't you think of anyone academic when you were growing up who was also popular? I can--and I went to school in American which is famous for its "revenge of the nerds" mentality. I think some people can be clever and academic and also "cool."

My son has no friends, really, (unlike my less "clever" daughter) and I feel terrible about that, but I don't think it's because he's clever.

[growingbagpuss]

Xanthipi - please don't shoot me for saying this - but it sounds a little like your DS might have mild (stress MILD) Aspergers?

[Pammi]

Growingbagpuss - how awful! I had a very similar experience to you. Although fairly bright I wasn't just bullied for that, I was bullied for everything imaginable - being skinny, having a pointy nose, unfashionable clothes, being ugly, being bad at sport and good at music and generally being uncool. I was also bullied right through primary school to sixth form, even at university I couldn't escape snide comments from snooty girls every now and then. I told my parents many times what I was going through and they basically said I had to "fight my own battles" and left it at that. My parents were also overly critical of me and not keen on giving me praise even when it was very much due. As a consequence I've become an adult with little confidence and have suffered bullying in every place I've worked. I have also attracted a few abusive boyfriends over the years. I think some people are just easy targets and the more they are picked on, the easier a target they become. I also believe that parents play the greatest role in instilling self-confidence and a sense of worth in a child. If my parents had treated me better I feel I would've had more self-belief and would've been better equipped to stand up to the bullying I have endured. Despite all this, I do have a nice life now but feel sad that my childhood was marred by this and that my general confidence has been damaged greatly.

[3catstoo]

I was bullied, not for being bright but for being thin with a 'fat' friend.
Later I was bullied because I wasn't interested in boys at 14. Of course that made me a lesbian or frigid !
Children can be cruel.

[growingbagpuss]

Pammi,

I'm sorry that your experinece had a less happy adult outcome.

I think this is one reason I feel so angry - i am lucky - I've come out if it reasonably unscathed - I did have supportive parents, and was lucky to hide behind academia, and music. My primary school head teacher used to say I brought it on myself, because i didn't "merge in". years later, he became a pioneer of "antibullying " stuff, and was well known in my home town for it. It amde me so MAD that he let me suffer like that.

[drosophila]

My ds is very bright (7) but I would say that . Anyway at the last parent's eve his teacher was waxing lyrical about his abilities and at one point said that he is not in the least showy (she seemed puzzled by this) and had a friendship with a boy who was not his intellectual equal (she seem very puzzled by this). I know DS has no idea that he is very bright and will usually put himself down.

Perhaps because he is so laid back about it there seems to be no jealousy and even one of his classmates who is also bright and cries to her mother because ds can do things she can't (her mother told me) still is a good friend of his.

[kismet1]

On a slight deviation, how do you tell if your child is bright for his age? DS, age 3, seems to whizz through jigsaw puzzles intended for 3 to 6 yr olds (without really bothering with the picture) and can read numbers and has been shown to often hide his abilities. I didn't realise he'd mastered his numbers until he suddenly reeled off a complete barcode off the cereal packet at breakfast without any prompting. Until that day I just thought he recognised the number 2. Have always been wary of being a pushy parent and just want him to enjoy his childhood but I am wondering if I challenge him enough and if any of his misbehaviour could be down to boredom with what I provide.

[nimnom]

My son, nearly five, is just about to finish reception at village primary. Luckily they are all very competitive and all keen to get onto the next reading stage. My son has experienced some bullying from an older girl, but him being so bright meant he had the good sense to tell a grown up straight away before it got out of hand, so it helped in this case.

[43Today]

this thread hits right to the heart of my current dilemma re my dd aged 10. She has Pervasive Development Disorder (ie on autistic/aspergers spectrum) but not severely enough to put her on the special needs register. She has worked very hard over her (state) primary school career to overcome her social and behavioural difficulties - with the guidance of some wonderfully understanding and caring teachers.

Now she is able to behave and function well within the classroom but social situations (eg playground etc) are still terribly difficult for her to negotiate. She is due to go up to a very good state comp, but my worry is that it is huge - 1200 children. She has already suffered bullying and being picked on and has no proper friends, is never invited to friends houses etc and sometimes cries about being lonely.

Although I have never liked the idea of private education and swore I would support the state system, I am starting to feel that for her, a small school with very small classes and really indiviualised approach to teaching would be so much more appropriate - and of course, the only local schools like that are private. So perhaps part of the problem isn't just bright/not-bright, state/private, but also the variety of school types available within the state system - ie very little.

what do others think?

[growingbagpuss]

43Today - that's a huge dilemma. your DD has had to go through a huge amount already, and clearly overcome a lot of her difficulties.

I suppose what I would say, is that in the real, adult world, she is going to have to fight these battles. not to say she should have to face it at the tender age of 11, but it might help prepare you and her for the reality of life with a social commucation difficulty.

Or - in a private/ independant setting she might find she can develop more confidence in a small setting, and learn how to handle herself gradually. Or she may be cossetted and suddenly have to face it when she leaves school.

You know her academic abilities, and maybe have some vague idea about what the future holds.. what would prepare her best? What would she cope with best?

Good Luck

[43Today]

Thanks for your comments and support, growingbagpuss - the state schools in our area are from 11-16, then most people go to a couple of big 6th form colleges that both have very good reputations. I am thinking that maybe a private school would be appropriate until she's 16 and then if she wanted to do AS/A levels she could swap back into the state system for 6th form.

The hope would be I suppose that she would learn to cope with the 'real world' but at 16 rather than 11, when she will have done a whole lot more maturing and learning about herself and others.

Perhaps that would be the best compromise and I'll just have to accept that sometimes ones principles just don't sit with real life situations..

[43Today]

Just a bit more - it's not the fact that a school is private that would make it suitable for her, but if it was small and individual with low pupil-teacher ratios; it's just that that sort of school doesn't seem to exist in the state sector round here (or anywhere?)

[Marina]

43today, what a dilemma
Have you been able to ascertain what sort of additional pastoral support she might get at the new school, even without a Statement? Would they take on board your dd's dx and maybe have some sort of mentoring or buddy scheme for her?
I think special schools at 11 plus, both private and state, do a magnificent job in preparing their pupils for life outside full-time education, IME.

[tigermoth]

43today, is there any way you could speak to some parents of special needs children who already go to the local schools? I wonder if someone could put you in touch with any of them? I definitly think you need to research what support the schools offer for special needs students, as Marina has said. It may well be that a smaller school is better. I can see where you are coming from.

FWIW, my son is in year 8 of a large, seven-form entry grammar school. One of his friends in his class (and so far the only friend of ds's to have visited us here at home) is special needs. He is on the autism spectrum and has some problems with his social skills and sometimes has meltdowns at school. Thinking of this thread, I have had a chat with ds about his friend, bearing in mind there's a strong culture of 'coolness' at the school. Ds says that no, his friend is not considered very 'cool'(said friend is obsessed with maths and computer games and is very bright) but ds and his classmates like him. Everyone knows he is special needs and apparently, knowing this, lots of children make more of an effort to include him in things.

[43Today]

Thanks everyone for your input, it really helps to hear other people's ideas. I think that I do need to get more info about how the secondary school would deal with her, before I rush into any big decision.. Thank goodness she's got another year before it all happens anyway..

Not 43 today anymore as it happens, called myself that when I first registered as it was my birthday, but thanks for the good wishes!

[dairymilkmonster]

I'm sure it is a variable experience. Plenty of people get bullied at any school for a myriad of reasons.
I was fine at primary school but at secondary had an awful time, mainly bullied due to being a geek ☹️. It was awful. I developed anorexia during that time (i recognise that is always a complx multifactorial thing) and am still struggling, although much better almost 20yrs later.
I expect the ethos of the school and what kids aspire too is the main factor here.