A bright child is a bullied child in state schools!!!!!!!

[TenaLady]

Your thoughts please. I just find it incredible that if a child is bright either in primary or secondary school they seem to be penalised by their peers.

Is it jealousy, what is it that makes these children that want to get on and enjoy their education such a target?

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[Anna8888]

Minty - good point but aren't you contradicting yourself?

Surely "emotionally retarded" means that you are unaware of the feelings of others because you aren't yet sufficiently educated to empathise?

[expatinscotland]

I think the system as it is focuses way too much on wolly-furry trying to 'understand' the bully rather than making THEM understand, by whatever means necessary, that it's not acceptable behaviour.

[MintyDixCharrington]

no I don't think that's what emotional retardation means, just as I don't think that a child who hasn't been taught their times tables yet has "learning difficulties". Emotional retardation to me implies that a child is significantly below the level of emotional development to be expected, compared to their peers. I think it is a cop-out to think that all bullies are emotionally retarded - in fact I think that is wrong.

[Anna8888]

Minty - completely agree that just because you haven't learnt/been taught your timetables you don't (necessarily) have learning difficulties - you lack education.

"Retarded" means that you are "behind" (eg the expected level for your age). You can be "retarded" because you have physiological problems and you can be "retarded" because you haven't been educated. And it is pretty difficult to distinguish between the two, given the nature versus nurture debate on gaining emotional maturity.

[cornsilk]

The word 'retarded' makes me cringe.
It is horrible.

[Anna8888]

cornsilk - why?

"retarded" just means "backwards" or "behind".

[cornsilk]

Would you be happy for a child of yours to be called 'backwards'?

[Anna8888]

Sure, all children are more mature on some issues and less mature on others. I think it's fine to use terms such as advanced or backwards. Actually, it's helpful to do so - it's too easy for parents (and other carers) to pull the wool over their own eyes about their children if they don't use some kind of measure of development.

[cornsilk]

So do any of your chn fit into the category of either 'advanced' or 'backwards'?

[VioletBaudelaire]

The term "Mental retardation" has acquired pejorative and shameful connotations over the last few decades and is now used almost exclusively in technical or scientific contexts.

[Anna8888]

Definitely, all three children are advanced, middling and backwards on some developmental issues.

We work hard at moving them forwards on the issues they are backwards on . In fact, we were only discussing at breakfast this morning the progress that we have made in helping my second stepson gain independence these past six months .

[cornsilk]

Would you be happy for Teacher to describe your child as backwards or retarded?

[Blandmum]

I think that many bullies have quite advanced social skills, particularly those who enjoy psychological bullying.

The kids are aften capable of empathy for those they consider 'worthy'. What they don't so is extent that same empathy to those who they bully. these is often a great element of choice in their actions

Often the motivation is simply that they want to do it.

You can argue, and they may be some truth that ultimatly they do this for some undefined 'reason'. It may be worth uncovering this resoan to prevent it happeneong again. But before that can happen, they should simply be stopped and made to see that, whatever their reasons, they behaviour is simply unaccepable. And this should be the priority.

[Blandmum]

'Retarded' isn't a phrase that is used in education noweverdays, individuals may use it but it is understandably frowned upon.

[growingbagpuss]

Haven't read all the posts - but I was bullied thru prmary and right the way thru secondary school into 6th Form! I was bright - and had the added disadvantage of having "skipped" a year at primary school - I went from being the eldest to the youngest.

There were lots of contributing factors - we didn't have much money, and were always in v unfashionable clothes, I was loud but not v good at making friends, I wore glasses, I was v tall and skinny......

But I would certainly say there is an inherent risk that children will be jealous of someone who finds work "easy", or is top of the class. Schools SHOULD handle this better nowadays.

Someone else said this - I don't go back to my ome town because of what happened to me. Up until about 6 yrs ago, I used to come out ina sweat thinking about the "kids" who had bullied me right until i was 17.

I don't think Private education makes any difference -children are children. I came out of school with good grades, and am now v happy with my life. I am a strong person now, and although I still look back with great sadness, I wouldn't change the person I am now.

Sorry... long post. V strong issue for me.

[Anna8888]

cornsilk - where I live, they definitely do

[cornsilk]

Am shocked that teachers still use that terminology Anna888. Would be beyond furious if anyone used those terms to describe my chn.

[VioletBaudelaire]

I think any teacher with even a moderate level of professionalism and empathy would understand that the use of that word is inappropriate.

[growingbagpuss]

ok -read a bit more and now i need to add more....

The worst bullies for me were the "nice" set, a group of bright, supposedly well brought up, secure, pretty, fashionable girls (and some boys) -and it was always v subtle. It was water in the pencil case, prize possessions taken, general humiliation -food taken, being tripped up, clothes taken...

With the boys, sometimes it was hitting, but mostly that I was ugly. I was called "uggs" for quite some time.

This wasn't about jealousy -it was because they could and no-one believed how much it HURT day, after day after day.

There was another group of less intelligent girls, less "it" girls, and their aggression, and often it was was around jealousy.

Mine came to a head, when we were doing our A LEVELS -and no-one can hide behind the "kids don't know what they are doing" when you get to A LEVELS. We had an open debate in assembly, where 6 people had to argue their "right" to stay in a fictional balloon..

I got picked by my tutor coz' he thought I could handle it.
My peers took turns in standing up, and looking straight at me, and saying "we don't want you" "we don't like you" "why don't you just jump"

At 17, I cried solidly at home for about 6 hours - I couldn't even get the words together to explain what had happened to my parents.

I "walked" away from the debate, quietly and calmly, until 1 or 2 people cam eup to me, and told me how brave I had been. THEN I lost it -for the 1st time in my entire school life, others saw what had gone on.

We left school 3 weeks later on study leave.

Not sure what my point is. I'm not looking for sympathy - but maybe some people who've posted think that words are insignificant, and that your intelligence will keep you going, or whatever. It doesn't work like that.

Children NEED to be shown that it is wrong - whether they are seen as a bully in a traditional sense, or are simply exerting power over others.

[Anna8888]

cornsilk - how would you / do you feel about a school system where every child is marked out of, say, 10, with 5 as the pass mark. So your child can "fail" in several subjects at year end? Even "fail" the year and have to repeat it?

[cornsilk]

Have no experience of that system Anna888. Are you not in the UK then?

[cornsilk]

Growing bagpuss - your experience sounds awful.
Sometimes teachers/tutors do side with the bullies because it is easier than tackling the bullies. I have seen this happen.

[Anna8888]

No, I'm in France. I went to school in yet another country (school in English with many English teachers) and my daughter will go to a bilingual French-English school.

Both my own school and my daughter's school will "fail" children, call them advanced or backwards etc.

I don't find it as bad as all that . In fact, it can be quite useful, as it provides great clarity.

[cornsilk]

Not sure what to think about that Anna8888. Have no personal experience. I have heard that it is much harder to qualify as a teacher in France - only the very best are allowed to qualify. Also that discipline in schools is much better and that parents/pupils have more respect for teachers. I suppose in France the terms 'retarded' and 'backwards' may well have different connatations than in the UK.

[Anna8888]

cornsilk - discipline is not so much of a problem in schools here as in the UK, and I think that is because standards are generally much clearer.

I'm afraid that I think that the empathising approach in schools where no-one can fail, everyone has excuses for bad behaviour etc is not a good one. Much easier for all if standards are clear and universal.