A bright child is a bullied child in state schools!!!!!!!

[TenaLady]

Your thoughts please. I just find it incredible that if a child is bright either in primary or secondary school they seem to be penalised by their peers.

Is it jealousy, what is it that makes these children that want to get on and enjoy their education such a target?

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[FioFioJane]

thats very true marina

[fircone]

Er, are we still talking about bullying of clever kids or has this thread morphed into whether private is better per se?

[FioFioJane]

thats what all these threads morph into fircone, do keep up

[CountessDracula]

can I just point out that bright does not necessarily equal academic.

[Anna8888]

speedymama - many things make up a child's education... and parental involvement and/or parental money both make a hell of a difference to children's outcomes... I would have thought that state education with minimal parental involvement was on average less effective than private education with minimal parental involvement. Which is what people go on when, over simplistically, claiming private education is better than state

[Marina]

Fio, I have to say, alas, that I was bullied very badly indeed at primary for being bright (with a blind eye turned by the head and two of the senior teachers ) and aggressively teased for being a theatrical weirdo at grammar school. Someone further down the thread commented that at grammar school you are less likely to be bullied in the true sense just for being bright and that's true IME. But if you are bright and also different in some other way you do cop some flak which can feel like bullying to a vulnerable teenager.
Times have changed and I think policies on bullying across the board generally work much better than when I was a child.

[speedymama]

Fircone, that was the underlying message I got from the OP, particularly with her final line

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[FioFioJane]

marina

I have been lucky to be honest and most probably come accross as blasé, as I only encountered bullying twice at secondary school and it was sorted out pretty quickly tbh. I was a tall, gobby girl though which most probably helped. I remember getting mocked for being posh () because we lived in a big house and had a utility room, heaven forbid, but for me that was about it. My sister got bullied until I usually stepped in.....she was tiny though....

Primary school was a dream. We went to a village school and I loved it wish I was still there

[fircone]

Fair point, Speedymama. I'll go off and clean the loos and fret about my dcs being beaten up at the local comp .

[speedymama]

I wonder if a study has been carried out to to assess the relevance of educational background to workplace bullies? That could potentially provide fascinating insight, particularly when you consider those high profile employment tribunal cases in the City.

[Reallytired]

"Children NEED to be shown that it is wrong - whether they are seen as a bully in a traditional sense, or are simply exerting power over others."

I would be curious to know what is the best of doing this. How to make bullies feel TRUE remorse for what they have done. How to make them stop and think. How to make the bully physically break down and weep because they feel so ashamed of their behaviour rather than the bully crying because he or she scared how their parents are going to react to them being suspended.

The kind of one to one help that I think the ring leaders of bully situation should get would NOT be a nice cozy experience. Prehaps a two day workshop in a pupil referal unit rather than a two day suspension for serious bullies would be more effected. Especially as many kids that I went to school with saw being suspended as a holiday.

I also think that in many schools its a class situation. Its rarely one bully. Those who don't speak out when they see another child being victimised are at fault as well as the bully. This low level bullying needs be tackled in PHSE

[Marina]

Interesting thought speedymama but I think work culture is more relevant myself
The City is surprisingly diverse in terms of educational background IME, although I daresay that the higher up you climb, the lower the proportion of state educated managers

[growingbagpuss]

I wasn't saying neccessarily about getting bullies to see what they have done wrong - in the mroe subtle cases it could (and does) make it worse - but perhaps trying to prevent it in the first place.

As was said earlier - home environment is the key - and social responsibliity. I know that is a BUZZ word right now, and it means nothing - but teaching children the basic niceties of life should help.

The "nice" girls who bullied me were v subtle, and individually you could argue they were just being children, but as a "pack" of 5, 6 or more of them, it becomes a culture, and becomes a planned activity. their parents would never have considered their children to be bullies - as indeed n'or did the teachers.

[Freckle]

Fio, primary aged children are incredibly aware of others' abilities - or lack of them. DS1 was bullied through Y5 and we pulled him out of school part way through Y6. He admitted to dumbing down his work so that he wouldn't stand out as bright and therefore attract the attention of the bullies. He's now at a grammar where little bullying goes on and that which does is not based on ability.

Both DH and I attended state grammars and I have every confidence in DS1's school.

[FioFioJane]

fair enough freckle, I didnt realise

[Freckle]

It would be nice to think that that sort of awareness only kicks in when children are older, but children these days are very clued up wrt others.

[plummymummy]

Agree with others who say that the character of the individual is a determining factor, not just the academic ability. Dh went to a public school and there were bullies a plenty there. I went to a state school and recall bright bullies picking on less bright pupils.

[speedymama]

Marina, do you think that as you get higher up in the Citym, much of that is to do with the knowing the right people, going to the right school, having a face that fits etc rather than innate ability, iykwim?

We often hear about the glass ceiling that women face in the workplace but very little is said about the old school tie network glass ceiling.

[Anna8888]

speedymama - yes, the network effect works against women hugely.

An example - when I did my MBA there were only 25% women in the class. And today, 10 years on, only a minority of those women are working in really high level jobs (because they've stopped to have children/gone freelance or whatever). Whereas nearly all the men are in top positions and carry on meeting on the golf course/at the tennis club/other male pursuits that women don't do or don't do with men.

It's a big issue and pretty hard to resolve.

[speedymama]

I am not at all surprised Anna. It is quite depressing really. Imagine how much society would move forward if reward was based on merit rather than patronage? No wonder so many women and ethnic minorities start their own businesses.

[Anna8888]

speedymama - hmm, it's a very hard one.

Personally I think that women hugely underestimate the power they can/could wield in society because they are poor at negotiating for themselves - and that is true whether or not they work outside the home.

[AbbyLou]

I haven't read all this thread, I haven't got time, but thought I would add my pov as an infant school teacher. In my opinion and in my experience the opposite is nearly always the case. Not that SEN children are picked on, I don't mean that at all. However, in every single class I have ever taught, from YR to Y2, the cleverest children have nearly always been the most popular and not picked on at all.

[LoveAngel]

Haven't read the replies, just the OP, but I would say this isn't always the case (in my experience as a teacher and personally). Often very bright children are leaders amongst their peers, although I do agree that the state education system doesn't always cater for very bright children.

[Blondilocks]

I think they're just jealous or embarrassed. Someone that picked on DD had actually been asking for her help the day before!

It seems though that it's not just the clever ones that get picked on though.