A bright child is a bullied child in state schools!!!!!!!

[TenaLady]

Your thoughts please. I just find it incredible that if a child is bright either in primary or secondary school they seem to be penalised by their peers.

Is it jealousy, what is it that makes these children that want to get on and enjoy their education such a target?

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[Judy1234]

Only 7% of children are at private schools and probably overall there are more state schools which are in difficult areas with violence and knives in school than in the private sector but wherever it happens it's wrong.

It's certainly helpful to look at cyrlces of abuse - look at all the working class pro smackers on the other smacking thread who think it's fine to hit their children - all of use are influenced by our genes and home. That is not a defence or excuse but it's worth looking at and trying stop things repeating themselves.

[wheresmysuntan]

'Reallytired' - I was about to respond to your post but 'Expat' has put my point across so well already. I would add that many victims DON'T go on to bully themselves - those that do have no excuse for their behaviour.
Also agree with 'Atilla's' post. I was bullied all through my schooling as I was the bright child. The worst bit about it was that I simply couldn't understand why these children behaved as they did - I would never have treated anyone as they treated me.
I worry that my dd is very like me in this and as an only child she can be over-sensitive to teasing ( although there is a very fine line between teasing and bullying imo). However, her salvation at school (so far) is that she is not the only bright child - there are about 5 of them at a similar level and there is no bullying if you are bright.

[Reallytired]

To stop bullying, I think we need to look at why children become bullies. The bullies need help as much as the victims. Its not to say that the behaviour of the bully is acceptable, ITS TO UNDERSTAND.

Look at this link.

www.angliacampus.com/public/prnt/beyond/bullying/page05.htm

If we want to stop bullying then we NEED to break the cycle that has been happening in our schools for years.

No child was born a bully. I also don't think you can always blame the parents. There is no point in completely demonising a family. Its better to help them.

My expensive private school had bright girls from well off families who were very nasty bullies. They had issues of self esteem due to excessive expectations from parents.

[magnolia1]

I haven't found this to be the case with my twins but with dd1 (nearly 12) She was bullied and jealousy played a big part.

[MintyDixCharrington]

was true for me

state primary school - seriously physically and verbally bullied for being class wierdo clever kid a year ahead of herself

private secondary - not bulled at all although still class wierdo clever kid a year ahead of herself

state school not in the UK admittedly

I think children basically bully children who are different to the accepted norm. so that is fat kids, shy kids, and in non-selective schools, clever kids.
at my selective private school it was the thick kids (and there were only a very few) who got bullied (and the fat ones and shy ones)

[Anna8888]

Minty - yes, human beings basically gang up and prey upon those weaker than themselves, and weakness can mean being in a minority.

Motto - put your children in an environment where they are in the majority

[Freckle]

It would be interested to see whether the bullied children are all eldest children.

DS1, eldest of 3 boys, was bullied mercilessly for being bright. He is not very socially confident and seemed to wear a sign on his forehead reading "I want to be liked", which made him a prime target. DS2 is very bright too, but is much more socially adept and has never been bullied because of his ability.

DS3 again is bright but also very popular.

So is it a question of the brightness, coupled with a lack of self-confidence as an eldest child (I know - huge generalisation here) which leads to them being bullied?

[Judy1234]

I would have thought oldest children are least likely to be bullied and often the most successful.

I remember at my older children's schools the children definitely formed groups but I thought there was a reasonable let's just leave them alone view for the various groups whether it was sporty, cool, goth, geek, very religious or whatever. Presumably there was bound to have been some bullying but not that we ever came across. Mutual co-existence in relative harmony and acceptance of difference I thought was reasonably well displayed.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It is bullies who lack social skills and who are emotionally immature. Only emotionally retarded people who lack social skills need to bully; no-one else needs to.

[wheresmysuntan]

'Reallyrired'' - 'To stop bullying, I think we need to look at why children become bullies. The bullies need help as much as the victims.'
NO THEY DON'T - the priority must be to help the victim and to punish the bully and make them understand that their behaviour is not acceptable. Yes, I agree that some children might be bullying because of something lacking in their upbringing but in my very personal experience the bullies were just plain nasty individuals who enjoyed humiliating other people. To be told that the bully 'needs help' only makes the victim feel even more undervalued.

[Reallytired]

"It is bullies who lack social skills and who are emotionally immature. Only emotionally retarded people who lack social skills need to bully; no-one else needs to. "

What causes a child's social skills not to develop. If a child becomes socially withdrawn for whatever reason do you think that this can stop their social skills developing. Is a very socially withdrawn child at risk of becoming a bully?

Is punishment the most effective way of stopping a bully? If a child is emotionally immature or retarded should they get help to help their social skills?

[expatinscotland]

I agree, suntan.

I'm really sick of seeing low-life bullies getting away with it because they 'need help'.

Most of the time, they need the figuartive equivalent of a swift kick up the jacksie (and NO, I don't mean that literally, hence the word 'figurative').

They continue behaving this way because there is no negative deterrent to their actions because society's too busy trying to 'help' them and not the people whose lives they ruin and/or take.

[motherinferior]

Back to the OP: well, so far my daughter is only just finishing Y1. Slightly to my surprise, she is (I am informed by her teacher) doing really rather well. Rather more to my surprise, he says she's not just popular but 'a bit of a leader' (frankly I shudder for the 21st century if this is the case ). So all in all, as a generalisation, in my experience it appears to be total bollocks.

[wheresmysuntan]

''Is punishment the most effective way of stopping a bully? If a child is emotionally immature or retarded should they get help to help their social skills? ''
Possibly the latter approach might help prevent future bullying but the bullying behaviour must be punished especially if it is the sort of behaviour which in any other context other than at school would be subject to prosecution.

[MegBusset]

Haven't read all posts... but... yes, I was bullied at state school for being clever. However, at private school I probably would have been bullied for being poor!

[MegBusset]

Must add that this was a state grammar, not a comp, so supposedly the bulles were reasonably bright, too.

[wheresmysuntan]

Agreed 'expat' - mind you, when I was on the receiving end of bullying I longed for someone to administer the 'swift kick...' and would have quite liked it not to be figurative at all !

[cornsilk]

I work in primary but have never witnessed chn being bullied because they are bright. I have seen a fair bit of bullying tho'. Very often it is because a child is poor.
I have usually worked in schools in underprivileged areas - may be different in other schools.

[Reallytired]

"Possibly the latter approach might help prevent future bullying but the bullying behaviour must be punished especially if it is the sort of behaviour which in any other context other than at school would be subject to prosecution"

Prehaps more extreme bullies should be helped in EBD schools away from their victims.

However I think that bullying can vary from extremely petty incidences to full blown nastiness.

If petty bullies are helped with social skills then the bullying would get so extreme.

[suedonim]

"It is bullies who lack social skills and who are emotionally immature. Only emotionally retarded people who lack social skills need to bully; no-one else needs to."

Is there really such a stereotype of bullies? The worst bully I knew of was the opposite of the above description. She was the dd of the head teacher, was socially skilled, bright and didn't seem immature. Some of her 'crimes' included cutting the strings on someone's violin and setting fire to a girl's bedroom curtains. I think her bullying was about attention seeking and nothing else, she simply had to rule the roost.

She's older now and recently married - I was astounded to discover that some of her victims, one of whose parents even moved house to get away from her, were her bridesmaids. Does she still exert some sort of power over them???

She once tried to bully my ds2 because his best friend is black. Ds2 told her calmly that he knew what she was up to, that she was a thoroughly unpleasant person, that nothing she could do would make any difference to his friendship with his bf and that she was wasting her time by trying to bully either him or his bf. End of problem, she never bothered again. Ds2 didn't tell me this until long after he'd left school, but he was only 14yo or so at the time.

[MintyDixCharrington]

I think this idea of bullies as emotionally retarded is completely wrong.
Also evidence shows that bullies are more likely to be POPULAR than unpopular (much as suedonim says). I think a lot of children bully simply because they can, I think in many cases it sort of sets them up for being leaders and popular, and it often continues because the bully is being encouraged from the sidelines by others who don't necessarily bully themselves, but get a bit of a thrill out of being on the side of the "stronger" person. I think it is almost human nature to exert power and control over weaker people, and what prevents us from doing it is courtesy, empathy, etc. Learned behaviours.

So re children I think what stops it is (a)education - making people stop and think what it is like to BE bullied, and learning that it is unacceptable, unfair and unkind, and (b)having environments which are not conducive to bullying - not having unattended changing rooms; knowing where people are, when; having systems in place to enable people to complain, anonymously if necessary, and know that it will be taken seriously; clear procedures for dealing with it (including punishments).

[cornsilk]

I think bullying also depends on the class teacher. A minority of teachers do turn a blind eye to less obvious bullying if it is being perpetrated by a child they find difficult to control and do not want to confront. By less obvious I mean silent bullying..looks, leaving out etc. Just as hurtful as violence, easier to ignore.

[berolina]

In my long school career as a victim/survivor of bullying I experienced it from both the 'popular, enjoying the power trip' type and the 'desperately unhappy, socially unskilled, problems of their own' type - the worst was from a girl of the second type; I was basically the only person lower in the pecking order than her.

I was academic, but I think the bullying was more to do with my being what teachers regularly termed as 'over-sensitive' . I simply never got why anyone would want to be deliberately nasty to anyone else. It is about difference from the norm coupled with a perception of being an 'easy target'. There was a boy in the year below me who had learning difficulties and was a naive, innocent dreamer - he had a dreadful time

Re. the solutions, I'm with PPH.

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Blandmum]

Bullying may be physical or psychological in nature. In order to do the latter 'well' you have to be quite emotionally adept, an understand those things that make people emotionally happy as well as sad.

These people may choose to make people unhappy. Not because they lack the knowledge or understanding of the emotions that they are messing with.....quite the contrary. They understand them and use that understanding to bully more effectivly.

What they lack is compassion and empathy for the victim.