A bright child is a bullied child in state schools!!!!!!!

[TenaLady]

Your thoughts please. I just find it incredible that if a child is bright either in primary or secondary school they seem to be penalised by their peers.

Is it jealousy, what is it that makes these children that want to get on and enjoy their education such a target?

I know if it were my child I may consider private education where the motto is fail and you are doomed or does this behaviour also happen in private education?

[Idreamofdaleks]

This doesn't happen to the bright kids in dd's class - she is Y2.

Bullying goes on in both state and private schools though and is still all too common. I think parents need to work on "bully-proofing" their kids as far as possible and also to lean on their school to promote an active anti-bullying agenda.

[amidaiwish]

i was in comprehensive school and was bright but i was also sporty, boisterous so got away with it.

my older sister was very bright and was bullied.

so it does depend on the child. sport helps a lot. standing up to it the minute it happens can nip it in the bud, for all children - not just bright ones.

[nooka]

Doesn't seem to be an issue at my children's primary school - I've not heard any parents or children complaining about bullying for any reason. There are alwasy a couple of kids that you want to steer clear of in every class, but they'll just pick on anyone around (I think to be honest this is more about them than anything to do with the other childrren).

I was excluded at primary school for not being Irish or going to the local church, but in general I think it becomes much more of a problem at secondary school. Bullying can happen in any school (private or state) I think, but different schools are better at handling it.

[nooka]

Oh, and I am not aware of any private schools with motto's of "fail and you are doomed"! Private doesn't automatically mean academic.

[frogs]

Rubbish. My dd1 is very academic, and has never been bullied. She had a lovely group of friends in her very mixed primary school, and was definitely one of the class alpha females, although she has a strong nerdy streak. The same seems to be true in secondary school, though she's only in Y7 atm.

Ds is bright, though not outrageously so, and has always had plenty of friends, as well as the odd personality clash with some of the dominant kids. In neither of their classes has there been a conflict between being sporty/cool or being bright.

It all depends on which schools you are talking about. A school that has a strong culture of picking on high achievers is not the right school for any child, bright or not.

[vonsudenfed]

I think part of the problem is that at some ages, children will do almost anything not to stand out from the crowd. So if they're bright, in a school with a spread of ability, there is a huge pressure not to stand out.

Both of my brothers felt this very strongly in the comprehensive school that we all attended - by the time I got there I stood out so much (posh, odd, already had O-Levels before fifth year) that I couldn't have fitted in had my life depended on it. But it was much less of an issue for me in grammar school.

[moo]

I would agree with roisin and others that it definitely isn't cool to be clever. It wasn't when I was at school (I frequently used to pretend I didn't know the answers - just so I didn't look like so much of a girlie swot) and ds1 informed me quite early on in his school career that "no-one likes you if you're a geek."

But bullying happens in state schools and independent schools and for a whole host of reasons - to sat that "a bright child is a bullied child in state schools" is a sweeping generalisation.

[TheApprentice]

Hi Tenalady

Unfortunately bullying does occur in the private sector. both my brother and I were bullied at our private schools, my brother very badly. And these were boarding schools which made it worse as you can never get away from it.

I was fairly bright, my brother very much more so, but tbh I think it had a lot to do with other factors such as not being sporty, or sophisticated or cool, and being quite sensitive.

As MB says, its very complex and there can be many reasons why a child is bullied.

[Judy1234]

There is bullying in private schools but I think not so much for being bright if it's a one ability private school where most of the class are going to get AAA or AAB in their A levels, no spread of ability. Even then children will divide themselves into whatever groups they choose whether it's sport, nerd, goth or whatever and some will play down the academic work they do, then work hard in secret and get 11 A* at GCSE (it has been ever thus) but if 99% of the sixth form go to the best universities you won't be bullied for going to university so I'm glad I paid.

I would have thought it was a senior school issue not primary

[southeastastra]

my ds(13) is quite clever (didn't take after me!) in his comp he's just seen as a popular boy and isn't bullied

[saffy202]

DS1 is in a year group like martianbishop mentioned - his teacher said he'd never met a year like it before and he was close to retiring. There is enough boys who are bright but also very sporty so they are always competing against each other.

Unforunately they all move onto differing High schools in September so the group will break up

[SparklePrincess]

I think it depends on the school & the childrens parents attitudes to education. We now live in a very middle class area where education is valued. My 6 year old dd very excitedly told me this evening that she was looking forward to starting "mental maths" like her friend. It made me think how different things would of been if we had not moved here from "chav on sea" There is no way she would of come out with something like that if she was at school there You wouldnt of dared to express an interest in anything academic there. No need for qualifications when all the future holds for the vast majority is dole queues & teen motherhood

[suedonim]

Afaik, none of my dc have been bullied at their state schools for being bright. Maybe it's because their schools have been high performers so being bright isn't anything unusual. In dd2's school there was very little bullying at all, it was jumped on from a great height.

[Piffle]

my ds1 was badly bullied for being academic and not sporting.
Since being in a top grammar it has gone.
Coincidence
Maybe.

[suedonim]

Sorry, that should have been dd1's senior school.

[mummymagic]

Hmmm... I don't think kids are bullied for being bright, I think kids can be bullied for being different or for being annoying (controversial - obv still not acceptable, but think back to school. there was always someone in the class who just seemed to 'attract' it).

Have discussed with dp. Neither of us were bullied at all, at primary or secondary. I was the only kid not from the council estate in my primary school, and wasn't at all cool in any way at comprehensive secondary. Personally, I would have found me annoying at school but there we go.

At the schools I have taught at, I have not seen a 'its not cool to be clever' attitude. Quite the reverse. Don't know if its a geographical/cultural thing but this is Hackney and Haringey, predominantly Black and Turkish students, where it was very acceptable to be the intelligent one getting A Grades and praised in class (maybe why we will happily send dd to a state school here in Hackney...).

[mummymagic]

ADD ON:
Re: kids who seem to 'attract' bullies, I definitely think we ought to concentrate more on assertiveness training. There are bullies (or people who are nasty) everywhere as you grow up. Obviously it is not an acceptable way to behave, but kids need to know how to deal with it and not just 'oh they're wrong.'

[expatinscotland]

What kind of message do we send to children when we tell them that THEY have to accept bullying behaviour and be 'assertive' about it?

So they can get stabbed to death at school like Luke Wilson and several other students, including a 16-year-old girl in Western Scotland some time ago whose killer is now out leading her life under a new name?

So they can commit suicide like so many we've read about in the papers?

So we can have a UK version of Columbine?

'Oh, these kinds of people are everywhere, so they need to learn to deal.'

These people are everywhere because UK society does FA to deter this type of behaviour and indeed actively encourages it in the media.

These folks know damn well they can get away with it from the get go, so they continue to do it.

And as long as adults fail to protect children from bullies, make them feel responsible for somehow bringing bullying behaviour on themselves and fail to punish bullying behaviour - because if your parents are unwilling to do this for you, then it's the government's responsibility to do it for you for the good of society - then we'll just keep adding to the body count.

[swedishmum]

At least part of dd1's alienation in primary school was caused byt the teacher (now the head) who called her swot and pointed to others she was clever. She did similar to a friend of hers in year above who was tall AND clever. Teacher told me dd would have trouble in sec school as she's too academic. Absolute twaddle. She's not disliked because no-one's pointing out she's different/cleverer/whatever. Have now moved others to a school where high achievement is encouraged, not pointed out by teacher in a "you're different" way. I know how the teacher was because I was in the classroom as a re-training teacher/TA.

[rarrie]

I ditto what Roisin has said ... in many state schools I have worked in, I have seen loads of bright students spectacularly underachieve because it is not cool to do well. It is a shame, but happens all too often I'm afraid.

[mummymagic]

I apologise, expatinscotland. I knew i wasn't being clear.

The reality is, most people will encounter nasty people in life. BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT. Training someone to be assertive is about helping someone be confident to tell someone to go away or 'that they are going to report them for sexual harrassment' or being confident to realise that it doesn't need to affect them. IMO it is when people have a 'victim' mentality and told bullies are stupid but are not given anything themselves to do about it apart from 'tell a teacher' which is often the last thing bullied children feel like doing.

I definitely think we have a responsibility to raise happy, confident children who do not bully or are bullied.

[Twinklemegan]

Just read OP, I was in private school and this happened to me. I had the worst combination: being very bright, being good at music, the smallest in the class, poor at sport. Not exactly Little Miss Popular and I got quite badly bullied for a while.

[IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo]

But you can be a target of bullies everywhere. It may be because you are bright, because you are not, because you had the "wrong" clothes, or because you go (or not) to the "right" holiday places.

Private education doesn't guarantee a life without bullying. You are likely to be better where you can more easily feel "at home" be it a state school or a private one.

FWIW I learned to hide my academic skills almost as soon as I started attending a state school. However, I was able to make more friends in the wider varied environment that the state school offered. So, apart of longing for ages for a more sophisticated conversation, I think I was better in that school.

[IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo]

Apologies, I did only read the first part of the thread, so my previous post was not aimed at you.

[jcscot]

I was bright for my age at primary school and at secondary and I was horribly bullied (partly because I was bright and partly because I was mall and awkward and an easy target). When I wound up in hospital with a broken arm after being pushed off a bus when it was still moving (not the worst thing that happened, but it was the last straw for me and I 'fessed up to my parents) my parents moved me to a small all-girls school with a great academic reputation and I flourished there. The comp I'd been at isn't a bad school, it's simply that it's a big school and things can get lost in the noise. The guidance teacher wasn't helpful at all.

If I thought anyone was bullying my son I'd fight like cat and dog to get it sorted. If he ever bullied anyone I'd be furious with him.