will someone scold and spank me and remined me I am a stubborn socialist guardianista?

[twinsetandpearls]

I have always made my feelings clear about private schools but the family has been working on me again and have ordered a proespectus for a private school that I have been idly flicking through and I have fallen in love with it and even - and this is a big deal for me - looked at the website.

For me this is a huge step and I am feeling sick with guilt, so guilty in fact that I have just re planned all my lessons tomorrow for my classes as some kind of penenance.

I need other socialist guardianistas to take me in hand.

I can't predict the future so I don't know I can only go on what dd tells me now.

Dd loves going to church and is a very spiritual reflective child, she has been to the school and thought it was wonderful adn asked if she could go.

ooh, ok. That's a bit tough, then. Do you know why she wants to go - is it the spiritual side?

It was lots of things, she loved the associated church and the chapel in the main school and prep bit. The playroom also went down well as did the grounds. She loves music and wants to play an instrument and this is offeed in abundance and the observatory just tipped her over the edge!

twinsetandpearls you have a great sense of humour in you. Obviously some irish roots in their somewhere!! I REad all this was going to make a really good point and i'm must be too tired as it is gone. sorry. good luck don't beat yourself up over it. do what is right for you and yours. Let us all know waht you decide. I think catholic ed is important hence the 20 mile drive to school which drives us all potty and won't be doing again if we ever move!!!

and the swimming pool, and the fact you can sleep at school, and the library - she loves books, huge sports hall rather than a little gym as there is at her present school, fantastic IT suite and all the activities that her current school cannot offer.

yes I come from an Irish catholic family.

sounds really lovely smaller class sizes it is catholic as well. I wouldn't think twice if i could afford it. Oh dear feel all guilty now but hey life is not a rehersal please excuse my grammer and spelling . too tired off to bed best of luck.

Lordy - does sound pretty nice. My sixth form was private - not v. posh, and I did have the best best time there - largely because it was a boys school with a co-ed 6th form... I am genuinely very grateful to my mum for finding the money to send me there. I do wish in hindsight that we'd hunted around for a non-fee-paying similar alternative. there was one in our area, but non-Catholic, so at the time that wasn't an option, and I was pretty religious at the time. Anyway, I'm off to bed and leaving you to it, I'm sorry to say - am moving house tomorrow - today! - and have stuffed up broadband in new house, so will be interested to find out what you decide when I get back online...

hab good luck with house move. how exciting for you. definately off to bed yawn yawn get to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imust go to bed I need to be up in 4 hours

Me too. 'Night.

TS&p, don't do it! My dd starts at grammar school in September, and I am finding this incredibly hard to justify to myself as it goes so radically against my principles. Idread to think how I'd feel if she was going to private school!

What are your reasons for feeling guilty twinsetandpearls ?

You are not depriving anyone else by paying for your daughter to go here, are you ?

It sounds like a fabulous school and by the sound of it, so does your DD.

I think it speaks volumes that someone who teaches in the state system and feels morally opposed to private education is now considering private for their own child.

For the first time ever I'm glad I'm poor, because I will never have this dilemma!

I think it's working out what your principles are. To me a "principle", is a small very clear point, not complex decisions on education policy.
I think there is a danger of confusing real beliefs with conclusions you reached based upon them 20 years ago. Circumstances change, and we all make mistkaes in thinking things through.

The problem arises when you start thinking of the results of your thinking as being principles themselves, and cannot release them because you see them as part of your identity.

Identity is a big cause of poor thinking.

People say "I'm a socialist, therefore I am against private schools, nuclear power, city bonuses, etc".
That's not logic, that is opting out of thinking altogrther.
Just as dumb as those who say they vote Tory because their parents did.
If you think about the consequences of fairness as a principle you may be against private schools, which is fair enough.

But intellectual integrity requires you to think, and if you do not occasionally realise you have thought wrong, then you aren't thinking at all.

Oooh, very good post DC.

It's not "I am a socialist therefore I am against private education, nuclear power and so on......" it's "I am a socialist and I am against....." There are socialists who are not opposed to nuclear power, for example and there are Tories who are.

To me, a socialist is someone who believes in social justice.

I'm not guardianista I'm afraid, but to play devil's advocate surely faith schools are equally unjust in selecting only a proportion of society to be eligible. Many Asian families would also like the benefits of stronger discipline etc available at these schools but are excluded - primarily because their faiths were not present in such numbers in these countries when primary schoools were being established 100-odd years ago.

In terms of your principles - I think it is possible to want to see good educational opportunities for all and at the same time to be able to choose what you give to your kids (and to want and choose what is best for them). There will always be barriers to this (proximity to schools, money etc) and it is an individual choice as to how far you go in that search (I have a friend who is moving her family over 200 miles in order to get into the "best" school for her son). Given that you are someone who is dedicated to providing the best in a difficult school in the state sector I don't think that anyone can really accuse you of not supporting the state sector. And I don't think that "choosing the best school for your child" is the same as "state schools aren't good enough for my child". Personally I'm always slightly sceptical as to the difference that individual parents or evn children make to a school, especially at secondary level, so I'm not a fan of the "you're depriving the state sector of a wonderful resource by moving your dd" argument.

As a true Tory, the one thing I would say is that your daughter will only go through her schooldays once. These next few years are deeply formative - most people have fixed their belief system by the age of 13/14. They may choose not to practice any religion but their view of the world had been largely formed, and their core values are typicaly set. I would set a high value on a school that promoted the values that I would want my children to hold onto (far more than gowns, exams or swimming pools).

Hopefully my abhorrent Tory views will help keep you on the straight and narrow! By sending your dd to such a palce she would be mixing with the likes of my children!

TSAP, I was hardcore Guardianista until faced with reality of vile state schools in Bristol. We moved so didn't have to pay but I would have done had it been necessary. I don't feel guilty, I haven't looked back. Only read your OP, will read rest of thread later.

To me "right & wrong" is entirely a function of the effect on specific people.
Does it harm other kids if I send mine public ?

There is the argument that the kids who go private "deprive" state schools of good legaue table results. That may be true, but I don't regard schools as my problem, I care about the kids.
I think it's kind of true that private schools turn out arrogant kids, but in my view school merely helps define the way such a personal behaviour trait gets expressed. In other words is that sort of kid going to be obnoxious anyway ?

I can point to a very specific and objectively true way in which private schools make state schools better, in that they don't use up any education budget, and thus leave more money for the others.

Hey smallwhitecat - I had a private education and have impeccable manners (no really!) but I have to say I also knew a few unthinking, obnoxious, snotty little brats. Certain private schools did seem to specialise in them. A huge sense of entitlement.

botbot - same here!

Smallwhitecat, as a mostly privately educated person who educates her children at an independent school, I completely agree wth you.

I think it is far more to do with the parents attitude that turns out obnoxious, snotty brats.

My children are polite, well mannered and well behaved and they would be wherever I chose to educate them.