Daughter accused of being racist

[Loopylou19861234]

oopylou19861234

Hello i am not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes.... i need advice please.
Yes yesterday I had a phone call from my daughter's stating that there had been an incident of a raciel nature full stop when I enquired what had happened I was told that during a game on the playground my 7 year old daughter had referred to a boy as the Black Boy this was used in descriptive nature not as an insult but nevertheless she was pulled out of class for the rest of the day but up for racial insults which is going on her permanent record and is being referred to the board as a serious matter I am very confused over this matter as I don't think it's true or correct that my daughter has been branded a racist by the school what can i do?

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All she did was to point out a feature which easily distinguished him from his immediate companions. She's 7 and didn't know his name. Give the kid a break.

It really depends so much on context. If she was asked "who pushed you over" and she said "I don't know his name but it was the black boy" that's obviously not racist.

If she knew his name but said something like "errghhh yuck let's not play with the black boy" that would be incredibly racist.

I think since racism still exists in this country and he is in the minority it would be fine to suggest to DD that she don't refer to him as the black boy as he might feel singled out, even if she had no racist intention. Obviously if she actually said it in a racist way then it's much more serious.

I am from an ethnic minority.
Grew up in a prodominantly anglo saxon (otherwise known as "white' - whoops, was that racist?) part of the country.
Called everything under the sun which was socially acceptable in the days when the same stuff was still on TV (Alf Garnet, etc).

What I did not fear was the name calling as they were simply stating the obvious which I would do too by calling someone that best described their appearance (i.e. fatty, specks, etc).

What I did fear were the ones that beat me rather than name call me.

What I fear now is this leftist over reaction of this type described by Loopylou where innocent folks are pounced upon by some this puritanical drive to rid the world of inoffensive descriptive words that are used without malice.
The reason I fear this is because the leftist misguided puritanical drive is now pushing innocent folks towards the right (some eventually going as far as the far-right). If you need to see evidence of this then simply look throughout Europe where voters are turning to far-right parties - Sweden is the latest country where they secured ~20% of votes (but look at Austria, Germany, Hungary, even the cradle of democracy aka Greece).
It's ironic that those goody 2 shoe leftist leaning folks (that have not lived a life like mine where they were racially abused daily) are actually making the problem worse.
Normal people are fed up with this rubbish.
Let's get some perspective back.

How was this little girl supposed to have described the black kid?
Coloured? Non-white? Afro caribbean? African? IC3 male?
Let's get real!
Black is black. White is white.
We are becoming tolerant of the intolerant and intolerant of the innocent.
Time to grow up and save the day otherwise this stupidity will push too many normal innocent folks over to the racist side and before you know it we tip the balance of power......it's not long before we see begin to see regular far-right marches on the streets and I can tell you from experience that this issue discussed here is a walk in the park compared to that.

It's interesting the difference from country to country. Here in the USA it's not only acceptable, but generally quite common to have conversations about heritage...mostly because almost everyone comes from somewhere else fairly recently. And here in the USA, that question of "what's your heritage" would be asked of a white person just as often as of a person of color or someone with an accent. Certainly here in Los Angeles, people are proud of their heritage and don't feel that it makes them any less American.

Not so long ago, I had a group of dd's friends in my car. Visually I was looking at my very white daughter and 4 black girls. But when they started talking amongst themselves about heritage, it got super interesting. All of them, dd included, were extremely connected to their heritage from multiple countries that were not obvious just from looking at them. When I did training for volunteer work that I do with children in the foster system, I was taught the the important issue is how people self-identify and that that might be very different than how they look.

Sir mister 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
That's what I was trying to say but couldn't explain!

We are creating further racism and a rift by refusing to allow difference and noticing obvious difference in everyday life and making all difference a 'big thing'.

Also agree with posters saying to say "the black person" is racist is actually saying it's an insult - therefore being black is something to be ashamed of.

We should not feel describing someone by skin colour is any different to describing other features such as glasses, tattoos piercings and hair colour. It's just a descriptor feature and is part of that person.

Has anyone actually said that saying "the black guy" if there is no other way of easily identifying him is racist?

Look it depends on context. And the tone in which the statement was delivered.

In preschool my 4 year old was refered to reapeatedly by one child in particular as brown. You're brown, you're brown like poo. You're brown like this crayon, I like pink better, I dont like brown. Initially the staff said the child is just identifying difference.

This identification culmulated in my 4 year old lashing out at me during pick up screaming I hate you you are brown and ugly.
Only then did the nursery accept that defining someone as other can have a negative impact on the individual.

Therefore as far as Im concerned It depends entirely on the impact of the statement made regardless of the intent of the speaker.

I would ask the school about the impact on the boy, about what was said and how it came to the reachers attention. Did a child approach a teacher to complain? Did a teacher witness the incident and see the child become upset? Or did non of the children involved bat an eyelid and the teacher just felt it was a slow day and they wanted to throw in a bit of drama to make it pass faster???

Context is key.

*All I'm getting from some of these replies is that being black is somehow a negative characteristic that you shouldn't ever mention, in case you expose a black person to the shame that they apparently should feel for being black. In the same way you'd say 'the man with the blond hair' or 'the tall lady" but would (I hope) not mention a negative or less than desirable characteristic such as "the fat woman" or 'the spotty lad'.

Surely, the best way to encourage and perpetuate racism is to make an issue of the fact that people have different skin colour and tell people that you mustn't make mention of it, in case they feel ashamed or embarrassed about having skin which happens to be a certain colour, as we all have.*

This is what I was trying - badly - to explain earlier. And I also agree with whoever said that the overly PC brigade are pushing people away rather than making them more tolerant. The more I get told I must use this word one week but another week someone else tells me that no, that word is offensive, the less I care about getting it right. If I want to offend someone, whether racially or for any other reason, they'll know about it. And the 'professionally offended', as someone put it further up the thread, make me want to be offensive just to get up their irritating noses. This is the second thread I've become involved in where people are desperate to cry racism where it's obvious that none was intended and the whole subject is making me feel a bit sick.

Has anyone actually said that using "black" as an identifying adjective when there is no other easy way of distinguishing someone is racist?

I believe so - where it was pointed out that black as a descriptor is a problem when other words aren't due to the 'weight of history' attached . Something I'm sure a seven year old must have been aware of...

It’s a discriptor if all the other kids are white ...presumably if she knew his name she would have used that.

My issue with it all is we can be become very over sensitive and end up not tackling serious issues of racism. At 7 all it heeds is reminders and education.

I had something similar when a group of children from a different school (sister School to one DS attended) came over and someone upset him, DS was 9 at the time and the group of children were black. When asked to point out the child who hadn’t upset him my DS replied with “they all look the same”.

There was uproar over this despite the fact that DS is autistic and has facial blindness ....he would have said the same (and has done) when faced with a group of familiar but not well known group of white boys with blonde hair. I had to step in and remind the school firmly that DS has facial blindness and wasn’t being offensive. White people look the same to him if he doesn’t know them too. He live s in a world of his own with only very familiar people identifiable,

Has anyone actually said that using "black" as an identifying adjective when there is no other easy way of distinguishing someone is racist?

I don't think they did, some posters in response to other posts explained how 'othering' people in certain contexts/tones could be offensive, as well as the fact that children are capable of acting offensively because they pick up attitudes from the adults in their lives. As far as the scenario the OP presented people generally advised talking to the school and finding out what the circumstances were and taking it from there.

Well obviously, the "weight of history" means that you do have to be a little more careful when using black as a descriptor. That's just good manners. It is very rare for there to be no other way of distinguishing someone.

The point is, Delores, that your son's response would have been racist if it hadn't been for his specific issue. And was there actual "uproar"? Honestly?

@webuilt no I do not live somewhere where the only black person is paraded around. I have however, lived in towns where there was very few sub five black people and worked in school where the same was true on a year level. In school I could ask for James and the children would know exactly who I was talking about outside of his year group and this was in a school of over 2000. In the town I lived in I could ask have you seen John this week and people would know who I was talking about. No real names were used.

@ravenesque thank you for pointing out how othering works. You would be correct in stating that the majority of people are white but not normal. Are you saying that people who are not white are abnormal?

OP, I hope you resolve this with the school. Do you mind if I ask whether the boy was allowed to join in the play after being identified by his colour? If he was not allowed to play I can see why the school have interpreted the incident as racist.

"Are you saying that people who are not white are abnormal?"

Would you like to take a wild guess at the answer to this question?

What a horrible thread. @3GirlsMama sending you a hug - I didn't know that That Phrase was offensive either. Being called "faux innocents" because many of us on this thread hadn't heard that a phrase is racially offensive is really nasty and completely unnecessary.

Incidentally I am white. My father and grandmother were seemingly from a completely different time and world and were both extremely racist (my grandmother is now long gone and my father, now very elderly, has reined his views in somewhat). Back in the 1980s they had unpleasant words for pretty much every nationality other than white British. I grew up thinking that racist slurs were normal, possibly even acceptable ....and yet I had never heard of the spade splur until I read this thread.

To get back to the OP....poor little kid. It sounds like she needs to be told gently and kindly that there are other ways of identifying other children, and to have the chance to discuss it - but not labeled racist, as OP indicates that the school is doing.

• spade splur = spade slur. Totally the wrong word to type wrong and not notice

You would be correct in stating that the majority of people are white but not normal. Are you saying that people who are not white are abnormal?

I think that what was implied here was the way in which 'whiteness' is assumed, for example there is a really interesting article in Nikesh Shukula's collection The Good Immigrant; a school-teacher discusses how when marking stories written by his class, he was surprised to find that all the students including the ethnic minority students wrote about 'white' characters. This was linked to the fact that the majority of stories that the children had read were from a white perspective, children who were not white had to be 'given permission' by the teacher to write about stories about themselves or people who looked like them.

If i was OP I would challenge the school on this. Unless there is more to it it sounds like they are blowing it out of proportion.

Racism is wrong but all this permanent record/referred to the board is fucking ridiculous. Even if she did say something racist why not just give her a bollocking and move on?

In fact in a study reported on a few weeks ago the following was noted:
Only one in every 100 children’s books features a main character from a black, Asian or other minority ethnic background, a study has revealed.
Despite statistics showing that a third of primary school pupils in England are from a minority ethnic background, this is not reflected in literature, according to the study commissioned by the Centre for Literacy in Primary Education www.thetimes.co.uk/article/four-per-cent-of-childrens-book-have-ethnic-minority-characters-jwdzf2kkg

OP you should also ask to see a copy of the guidelines that the school are using for reporting 'racist' behaviour, some have been known to use older guidelines that were vaguely worded and led to over-reporting where in-class discussion and discussion with the children involved would have sorted things out.

@CherryAide the most sensible post I've read x if we were standing together I would expect to be called white if obvs you didn't know my name !! But I wouldn't be offended at all either x