How to hijack the 11+ so your kids get into Grammar School: a guide for the middle classes

[FatherTed]

THIS is why the 11+ and grammar (or grammer depending on which thread you read) doesn't improve social mobility. Sorry, but it's true.

Um, I mean "grammar schools" rather than "grammar" and "don't" as opposed to "doesn't". I did do English at school, honest.

Thanks.
Can't believe that I'm agreeing with David Willets.

that's so depressing. Sometimes I wonder why I am even bothering to try and get my dd out of going to the local, bottom of the league table, school when clearly everyone with money will be doing the same but backed with money.

Not anything new . When dh did the Bucks 11+ a number of his fellow pupils accepted at the grammar had been at a local Prep school , speciifically to train them to pass 11+.

I hate the inferred assumption that unless a child attends grammar or private school, they will end up on the scrap heap.

agree speedymama, for some children who may be borderline passes , they might actually be better off at a different shcool ratehr than feeling below par and losing self esteem.

DS1 is at a grammar and DS2 will be joining him there in September. We're not sure about DS3, who, although bright, does not yet seem right for a grammar school environment. I'd be quite happy to see him at the local high school where I'm sure he'd flourish - just as the other two are and will flourish at the grammar.

Can I just add that I didn't do any of what the mums in that article do - other than the fact that DS1 plays the oboe .

we don't have grammar schools but my local school is really really really not good, special measures 5 years ago and at risk of going through it again of course if I had the money I'd just move house I am however hopeful it will improve in the next 6 years before my younger ones go to secondary.

well it makes sense,
my little sister (state catholic primary) didn't get into Tiffin (grammar school, kingston) but got a part scholarship to LEH (private, very high academic results). how does that work?

because she didn't have even an hour's worth of coaching, parents weren't that clued up

In the north west much the same goes for Trafford (or it did a few years back). Prep schools full of children preparing for the exam - doing extra classes, hours of homework etc.

I wonder how many of these exam droids end up hating school?

Surely we don't have the full grammar school system these days anyway ?

Didn't that consist of grammars where you went through from 11 to 18 with the alternative being "secondary moderns" where you attended 11-16, going on to college if you wanted to study from 16 to 18. Pupils who didn't exhibit their academic potential at 11 were offered a transfer from secondary modern to grammar at 13 where relevant.

I think it's wrong to say that the grammar schools that exist these days function, as far as selection is concerned, in the same way that they did before the comprehensive experiment started. His argument against the grammar school seems to be based entirely on the way their selection mechanism functions and is manipulated at the moment due to the scarcity of grammar school places.

If there were grammar schools catering to the top 20% selected on an academic basis everywhere in the UK, there'd be far less competition for places, no moving to just across the order of a neighbouring county ect etc. The writer is compeletely ignoring the 80% for whom grammar school wouldn't necessarily be an appropriate method of educating beyond 11. Why can we not focus on providing a uniform quality, appropriately tailored education for the 80% to provide what education needs to primarily achieve.

See rantings on the "Tories set to scrap grammar schools" thread.

Actually in Lincs where we are it is not at all typical of that report.
it is very inclusive here for all backgrounds - the only middle class is us evil southerners who moved up to nab a space to avoid paying for private schooling or avoiding crap comps down South.
Also here in our town the "comp" or tech school has a joint 6th form with both girls and boys grammars, and is a very high achieving school in its own right.

I do agree. Why is there such a scramble to get a grammar school place? Because the standard of education there is perceived to be better.

What all parties should be concentrating on is not abandoning schools with a proven track record, but ensuring that all schools provide an equal standard of high quality education tailored to their pupils' needs.

compare the backgrounds of the kids at the top bucks grammar schools with those at the secondary moderns - shows how the system favours the rich and influencial parents imho.

Surely a big part of the problem is that grammar schools are so scarce. If we still had as many as we used to, there would be more places available and no need for all this cramming and extra tutoring.

Oh and one more thing.

IMHO, there is something that would dramatically improve the quality of the whole secondary school experience for all our 11 to 18 year olds, it would cost peanuts compared to some education schemes and could even give teachers a better quality of working life too. It would give pupils from all walks of life a taste of one element of the public school experience.

Politicians of all parties have droned on about it but seem to have done nothing to implement it in schools, ensuring it was not optional.

................Zero tolerance of swearing and general disrespect of authority figures.

Agree Unquietdad. Either everywhere has them or nobody has them IMO.

no I dontl think so Unquiet dad . There are as many Grammars in Bucks yet they still cram. I don't think competition for places is necessarily more fierce than it was in dh's day (30 odd years ago) People do move into the area from the suburbs , but then they always have.

LIZS, it's a million times worse than it was 30 years ago, believe me - I was there then and I'm here now .

Disagree LIZS

Trust me, Bucks/Essex is a whole different ball-game to say say Lincs/Yorks. Bucks/Essex is Home Counties territory, with a greater concentration of middle class people altogether due to proximity to London the epicentre of this country's middle class jobs market.

I mentioned on another thread that we know a family who coached their all-round-bright son into demonstrating a particular aptitude for statistics - not maths in general, just statistics, because that was what their best local comprehensive school specialised in.

I totally accept the claim that middle classes are distorting the grammar intake through buying coaching for their children - I went to a grammar myself and along with the uncoached kids from state primaries there were lots of highly trained ones from prep schools, even in the 80s.

However what I do not accept is the idea that grammars are somehow unique in being exploitable by the wealthy and clued-up.
If you have any kind of selection by aptitude at all this will happen and the more complex the system (as this specialist school thing is) the harder it will be for the less wealthy and educationally-savvy/educated to break into it. I just don't get why this is accepted by so many people who hate the idea of grammars.

Oh Good, Zog has first hand experience and can back me up on that point.

I agree with Grr

Quite often the reason people want grammars rather than good local comps, is because of the culture and ethos, rather than straight results.

They figure it will be much nicer to have a teenager in the house who is part of a peer group that has boundaries, an expectation of personal responsibility and consequences for actions, and a general awareness that telling adults to fuck off and die at the drop of a hat is normally considered at the very least, not very desirable behaviour.

The perception is that grammars are better at instilling this sort of awareness than local comps. I don't know how true that perception is, but I think it's there.