How to hijack the 11+ so your kids get into Grammar School: a guide for the middle classes

[FatherTed]

THIS is why the 11+ and grammar (or grammer depending on which thread you read) doesn't improve social mobility. Sorry, but it's true.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

"I think that one of the failings of the current 11+ system locally is that it isn't automatic - you only do it if your parents apply."

Couldn't agree more LadyMuck.
My mother had parents who were supportive but didn't have a clue - when she took her O levels she remembers her dad saying 'I suppose it would help if she passed one or two'.
Children in families like that (often the children of immigrants these days) have much less chance of getting into grammar now, sadly.

[Judy1234]

From the article:

"A lot of the local grammar school places will be taken up by children from private schools. Children are regularly taken out of our small state primary, to get the benefit of two or three years private education with a view to passing the 11-plus and then moving back into the state sector.

Of course, two or three years private primary education is a good deal cheaper than seven years of secondary schooling. Nice, if you can afford it. "

Peopel did that at my son's prep school and if they failed the 11+ then went for a private school.

I still think that if you compared the results at Tiffin with LEH - see reference below - the private schools on the whole do better than even the state grammars.

Also I don't see why in a car asking a child spellings etc is anything other than normal. My mother did it. It is a fun game. You're not crammed. You're just learning from your parents all the time without ideally pressure (and there's not as much pressure in the private system anyway as you don't have these all or nothing 11+ things - usually you sit for 4 or 5 schools and are bound to get a place at one of them even if it's the one with the worst A level grades.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

I have heard that the ban (planned or actual?) on interviewing children and parents for places at religious schools is also going to count against working class kids whose parents are less used to explaining themselves on paper.

[Ladymuck]

But what if you are a child of a parent who doesn't think that spellings in the car is a fun game? My parents would never have appreciated any aspect of "exam technique", nor even the value of looking at some past papers to have an idea about what was involved.

[Grrrr]

I hadn't thought of that Kathy.

I thought all secondary schools were going to be banned from interviewing parents/children

[DominiConnor]

Actually, I'm quite impressed with the boy Cameron for seeing this so clearly.
It is made all the more creditable by the fact that a love of grammar schools is a core value of his party.
Overnight it dramatically altered my view of him.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

Maybe, Grrr - I might have just heard about it in the context of religious schools because it was the Catholic bishops etc who were writing to the Times about it.

[Grrrr]

But DC isn't it a bit like the policy to tax car usage more heavily to persuade the public to turn to public transport but not actually improving/expanding public transport itself. Cart before horse ?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There will be more of those budget private schools. It won't make the comprehensives any better.

Stavros will open Easischool.

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

Stelios I mean, not Stavros

Don't you think it's a good idea though, if you don't mind your kids wearing an orange uniform?

[Grrrr]

OOOOH,

DC and DC, you're not David Cameron in disguise, praising yourself up are you ?

[Grrrr]

Orange uniforms would be a bit unkind to the ginger haired kids wouldn't it ?

[Ladymuck]

Doubtful - Cameron has made a point of saying that his kids will be at state schools (assuming that he has been to church enough!)

[Ladymuck]

"Easyschool" might be a dampener on the CV though!

[Lilymaid]

Chris Woodhead has got in there before Stelios with Cognita . Orange uniforms could be in style of Guantanamo Bay captives?

[Daddster]

OK OK Grr and 6" Katie - I don't have a solution to everything.

There are however plenty of ways to achieve social inclusion and get over the "catchment area" thing by specifying alternative admission criteria.

All I'm saying is that if you want to achieve appropriate education and allow children to reach their best potential, the 11+ and grammar schools are a retrograde step. The UN Special Reporter for Human Rights in Education criticised a similar system in Germany: "In spite of the often maintained free interchange between the school types, early selection evidently has lasting, negative consequences."

Funnily though, the UN Report claims "private schools enhance instead of reduce equal opportunity" - yeah, right.

[Grrrr]

There we go again, "the 11+ and grammar schools".

80% of the 11 year olds in the system went to secondary moderns. The 11+ was a system that consisted of 80% Secondary Moderns and only 20% Grammar Schools.

As far as I can ascertain the system was despised in some quarters because the secondary moderns were underfunded in relation to the grammar schools. Couple that with a "chip on shoulder" mentality of some folks who came to positions of power many years after their secondary modern education and bingo! The motive for chucking the baby out with the bathwater on the back of a "trendy wendy" education theory and the comprehensive experiment was born.

[Anteater]

I always think of young children as potatoes, if you dig them up to early to see whats there you kill them..(used to live near Habs in Elsteee.. the look on those poor kids faces)
This is what the entrance exams to Grammar schools are doing to so many children. Do not often agree with Xenia but I think she is correct here.

Like Freckle sys my utopia would be a range of different schools.

[Grrrr]

Anteater, in ds's last year at primary school we have to choose to apply to comprehensives specialising in either languages, sport or the peforming arts.

(He'll be 10 when we are making the decision as to whether we think he is a Maris Piper, King Edward, Estima or whatever).

Compared to that an 11+ exam seems far less of a gamble.

[Daddster]

I think Grrr is saying "the 11+ might be crap, but it isn't as damaging as earlier selection". Couldn't agree more, mate.

[Freckle]

Tbh, I don't think the specialisms in secondary schools means a huge amount at the moment. They get extra funding for additional facilities in their area of specialism but also have to do something in the community in return. E.g., DS1's school specialises in maths and computing and some of their teachers go to local primary schools and help out with additional maths. I assume the same happens on the IT side.

I'm not aware of their specialism impacting hugely on what DS1 does in school at the moment (although maths is one of his best subjects). It may come into its own in the higher years in school (he's Y8 at the moment).

So I don't think that if you, e.g., chooose a maths school for your child and then discover that maths is not his/her forte, that you have buggered up their education for the foreseeable. And most secondaries now seem to have roving 6th forms, so students can choose a different school at 6th form if it offers the course they want and their own school doesn't.

[heifer]

We are moving up the a county that has grammar schools. although dd only 3 so not an issue just yet..

The school which we hope she will go to doesn't coach 11+ which apparently the grammar schools like, and I thought was a great thing, but having read that article, I realise how totally naive I am in thinking that should DD be bright enough she will get in, if not she won't...

Had no idea the extent some people will go to to get their children into grammar schools...

Also - the 11+ has been described to me as verbal reasoning, what does that mean exactly?

[TheDullWitch]

A friend got her ds into all the posh highly selective private schools around here. Obviously a bright boy. Applied to several grammar schools and got back piece of paper saying he'd come 350th out of 900 entrants, with the first 120 getting in. It is crazy competitive because it's good and it's free and there are only a few in reach of London.

[exbatt]

I agree about the specialisms not meaning a huge amount, Freckle.

Our school has got one specialism and from Sept will have a second, but it doesn't mean children going to that school are expected to be channelled towards those areas or excel in them.

The other depts are just as good and in no way are parents having to decide when their child is aged 10 or 11 what they are good at or what they might want to do/be. In fact the whole focus seems to be on an all-round broad education and keeping your options open as long as possible.

[Judy1234]

Ante, "Habs in Elsteee" - my daughter was thre. The looks on the faces of the girls was absolutely delight and enthusiasm all the time, very very happy girls, much better for being educated with other clever girls. My memories are of very happy not pressured girls at all, a lovely school.