if you could afford to go private, should you?

[tankerdale]

Sometimes I worry that we've got our priorities wrong. We've ended up in a lovely large home with high running costs, we've got some but not loads of savings, most of our 'wealth' is in our house. Income is very good on paper but month to month we only manage to save a small amount, if any. I work 2.5 days, DH is full time. We have a nice lifestyle and I guess eat out a bit but I don't think we're otherwise extravagant, don't spend much on holidays, run 1 car, don't spend loads on clothes etc.

3dc, 2 already at primary school. We live in the catchment of what is considered a very good non selective state secondary but it is massive.

As it stands we couldn't afford to put 3dc through private secondary (there's a nice one nearby). But have we got it wrong? Should we move to a more modest home and prioritise paying for their education?

Feeling a bit guilty that we're not putting them first. Dc1 seems v bright and will probably be ok anywhere, dc2 I'm not so sure about and too early to tell with dc3.

If they go to the state school and have any problems I'm going to wish we made a different choice I think.

So - in principle, if you can pay for private - should you?

"Bertrand Hillview is an other example of an excellent 'Modern' school proving failing the 11+ is not the edge of the abyss for a child you claim it is."

That's actually not what I say! But hey ho.

I'm trying to find more about Hillview-so far all I can find is that it gets 59% A-C, which is good in real life but not on Mumsnet , has low levels of PP children and children with special educational needs. And a surprising number of high and middle ability children for a secondary modern. But I don think know much about the demographics of Tunbridge Wells.

That's as daft as saying the opposite Mistresslggi. There are excellent and crap schools in both sectors but Carl is absolutely spot on about this being a dire time financially for state schools - the government is bleeding them dry and they can't provide a decent education without the bare minimum of funding. That may not have had an impact quite yet, but state schools are teetering on a cliff edge, even the superbly well run ones.

Firstly, there are private schools who do specialize in the rich but thick.

The drip of insults is on both sides.

So just to be clear - I don't think my Ds is actually winging it - I think he has a degree of pragmatism which - given he also works quite hard - will stand him in good stead. Well I hope so. We'll see. The jury's out

I'd still be interested Bertrand in your view , and of course you may not wish to answer the point GetaHaircut made about the no.1 complaint from her outreach work.

These are the things which give me a wry smile or I need to sit on my hands for

1. If you go to independent school then you will find it hard to mix with a wide range of people
2. If you go to independent school then you will find university hard because you will have been "spoon fed"
3. Independent school is worth it because you get "connections"

As far as I can see, unless you are opposed in principle to private schooling ( which many are) and you can afford it (both big ifs) , the advantage of having independent schools on the table as a choice is that it gives you wider range of schools to look at. And whilst my son went to a private school there are many private schools I would not pay £1 for.

20 August 2015 – Staff and pupils at Hillview School for Girls are once again celebrating a year of impressive GCSE results with 80% of students gaining five or more GCSEs at grades A*– C

Bert, how about this: why not allow parents to choose to pay for education if they think it is better?

These threads are exasperating. The anti-independent school debaters insist simultaneously that private schools are better (no fair! Why do some children get better?!) and that private schools aren't any better at all (it's all snob appeal! A waste of money for thick rich kids.)

Obviously private schools all have different offerings that will especially suit particular children, and this is why certain parents are willing to pay.

There are private schools I would pay for because they would be better for my children than the state offering, and private schools that I wouldn't because they wouldn't be any better for my children than my local state company.

Mundane- I don't say any of those things, so I can't answer to them. I am philosophically and politically opposed to private education- I think it's bad for society.

I apologize for the "private schools specializing in the rich and thick" -I was commenting on someon else's post. I am happy to replace it with "private schools specializing in the rich and lower ability"

I can't really comment on the disruption complaint- of course there is disruption in some state schools- how could there not be in schools which take all comers?

Hillview got 80% A-C in GCSE in 2015? That's amazing! Where did you get the figures?

There's huge ground between winging it and perfectionism, surely?

And creative writing certainly doesn't take place in beautiful isolation. Especially script writing. There's a huge number of people involved and millions of quid at stake too.

But you are often asked to react very quickly (it reminds me a lot of being a lawyer in this regard), taking into account all sorts of variables that you have no control over.

I love it. But you couldn't be perfectionist about it. Well you could try, but you wouldn't be successful.

We tried private for our daughter (we have three kids). It was marginally better academically but certainly not better pastorally. It felt completely wrong morally. The kids at my children's very normal state school are fantastic and it felt like we were saying they and the system wasn't good enough for us. I could not feel happier that my children will continue in the state system for their entire schooling. We can easily afford private and I too felt like I might be doing them an injustice by not sending them to private school. I don't feel like that at all anymore.

Yes let's just let parents choose to go private or not. Oh wait, except the majority of parents could never afford it. Which is kind of the whole point isn't it?

goodbye the funding cuts are just incredible, aren't they?

I think a lot of damage is going to be done.

Yes Carl, damage is inevitable - students can't be educated at the sums now suggested.

I don't know how there hasn't been more collective uproar.

"don't know how there hasn't been more collective uproar."

Well, one of the reasons is that the movers and shakers have generally never set foot in an ordinary state school...........

Well, one of the reasons is that the movers and shakers have generally never set foot in an ordinary state school...........

You know perfectly well that this is rubbish.

With Trump and Brexit dominating the headlines, the government are getting away with murder with the NHS, education, higher education, local government services etc. Many of us in education are screaming loudly about the cuts to education but virtually nobody is picking up the story in the press.

I did say one of the reasons! But if the cuts in education and in the health service actually impacted on anyone who could do anything about it then things might be different.

Bertrand the 80% quoted for Hillview does not include English and Maths 2015 61% 2016 59% !

The only comparative schools that get close to 80% are the countries two 'selective' modern schools' Waddesdon 78/76% 2016/15 Wellington 77%/74% 2016/15.

.

Don't be ridiculous. Not all Tory ministers or backbenchers have their kids in private schools.

Almost all Labour MPs have their kids in state schools (on principle).

And MP/ministerial salaries aren't so high that they can all afford private healthcare.

Some of the Labour front bench are talking a lot about education cuts but nobody seems to be listening. (Lots of hard work being done by their FE guy Gordon Marsden, for example.) The country as a whole should be furious about cuts and furious about the impact of Brexit on these cuts.

Surely, and please correct me if I am wrong, one of the current goals in the DfE is to level the playing field in the amount spent per capita?

Here in Cornwall it's around £4k funded, but Tower Hamlets is receiving about £7.5-8k. That's a heck of a differential, and makes a difference of 10 or 15 teachers across a school with 1500-1700 students on the roll, regardless of their subject choices and ambitions.

What irks me, and this is personal, is the reluctance to accept volunteers. I am a qualified teacher, but old/nearly ancient, and my offers of free assistance have been ignored and not even acknowledged. I don't need a pay cheque and I think I could help with writing personal statements or reading prospectuses, but no response whatsoever.

There's a very considerable gulf between the stated goals and the actual impact of the new formula as proposed. My point (which I made a few days ago on a HE thread) was that a state school student getting educated on £4k pa can't expect to get the same education as an independent school child getting £18k pa, regardless of what type of school the state school is (comp, 'secondary modern', grammar etc) - that £4 k pa is a very, very significant limiting factor. That still doesn't mean that all independents are good, but state schools are stretched to the limit, and it's getting worse for many of them, not better, despite the soundbites.

It's all on the website

www.hillview.kent.sch.uk/gcse-results/

Coming back to the interesting points being made about being a perfectionist. In my old age I've come to realise that being a perfectionist is not always bad. To do well in something like a sport, in my case even very low level dressage requires a high level of precision and accuracy that can only be achieved by a a perfectionist mentality. I think it's good to not sit back and say that will do. I'm currently reading and rereading the comments by the judge at my last feeble effort. analysing every comment/movement, in what way was it good ok or bloody awful? I'm chuffed when I can see an improvement on the previous complete disaster, disappointed when areas that I thought were better weren't and stunned with things that I genuinely thought were mediocre at best scored well can I replicate this next time? What have I learned? What areas can I improve short term with just a bit more care, medium term with practice and long term with a new more willing body more lessons/practice and care? I'll do the next one more determined and hope to do better. I'm already thinking about doing in the future the next level of test up, I don't think there's anything wrong with this attitude, it's very satisfying to improve in fact I find it fun and far from being stressful I find it relieves the stress of my demanding job where exacting exceptionally high standards are constantly required. But all of this does need to be tempered with realism, I'm not going to ever be a world class rider but I'm aiming achieve excellence within my own level. So I think it's right that schools promote excellence in all areas and encourage their pupils to not settle for "ok" and far from always being stressful it can be exceedingly satisfying.

Goodbyeyesterday" your right there's a huge gulf between 4K and 18k or in the case of DS2's school and those of a similiar ilk 36k+. It's inevitable that this kind of money buys you better facilities, smaller classes, equipment, text books more teachers time etc. Children at these schools with very high fees are being educated in a completely different world. Your also right Goodbyeyesterday* that doesn't mean all independent schools are good or as importantly that all independent schools regardless of how much they cost, how good they are considered by the GSG, your neighbour and other parents in the side of the games pitch and your prep school head will they necessarily suit your DC or you as a family. There are many very expensive and very well regarded independent schools out there that I personally wouldnt spend my hard earned pennies on. OP this is why no one can actually give you a definitive answer, you might have a very well regarded high achieving independent on your doorstep but this doesn't mean your DC's will thrive there whereas they might thrive at the state school up the road or vice versa.

Sorry didnt mean to make 1/2 my post bold!

Happy, I understand what you are saying. I think you are right about a great many things. It is satisfying to improve and to do well and to know that you have reached a sort of excellence.

The problem is when people's internal judgement about what is worth pursuing to the point of excellence becomes skewed, and they just think that everything has to be perfect and lack the perspective and resilience to emotionally cope with life's inevitable, little set backs.